why didn't fender put up the mother of all info pages?

[Jim Shine]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

Originally posted by Newc:
Fender only supports the Fender community (read: collectors who deal in expen$ive $trat$ and Teleca$ter$ - us "pointy fans" are left to fend for ourselves.

Seriously, how hard could it have been to simply convert Kevin's original HTML to whatever the hell Fender uses? And why was it so damn important to convert it? Plus everything has to go through "The Committee" at Fender - wouldn't wanna upset the Puritans by showing too many pics of Custom Shop "This-is-how-Fender-should-have-been-doing-it-all-along" Strats.

Newc

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, thats why it took them almost 20 years to listen to the "collectors" and finally make the reissues kind of correct.

[ May 04, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Jim Shine ]

[Sandman0170]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

One of our well known JCFer's is working on the page right now. You should see it up in the next couple months, better than ever.

[toejam]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

[img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[sully]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

hey, i'm with ya, but we'd get spanked by fender if we used it in its current form.

sully

[toejam]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

But, Sully, I thought you liked to get spanked! [img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[sully]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

well, sure, but only the way your mom does it! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

sully

[toejam]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

Yeah, I hear she's pretty good at it. I don't remember, since she hasn't done it to me since I was like 2. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[ranalli]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

I personally don't care if it looks pretty or not. It's like just a factual resource as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate people's efforts..but think it would much better in the meantime to just take the old HTML wiht pics, zip it up, and put that file somewhere so people can at least download it. That's better than not having it at all.

[Newc]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

Yeah, thats why it took them almost 20 years to listen to the "collectors" and finally make the reissues kind of correct.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly. Because the *REAL* die-hard high-pocket collectors didn't want the RIs to be correct, they wanted people to pay the cash for their original 50s museum pieces. When ReIssues are 100% accurate to the originals, the value of the originals decreases because you have a large group of people who WANT an original but cannot afford one, so if they have the option of getting a new model that is exactly the same specs as the originals, then why should they pay the price for them? Therefore, the collectors (not the "Oh I love these, yeah they're great", but the "I bought this new in 58 and it's worth more than Bill Gates" collectors - the ones with glass tombs and climate-controlled vaults and multi-million dollar collections) see a decrease in interest in their originals. It's not a question of "Yeah, but this is an ORIGINAL Strat", it's a question of "Hey, this ReIssue plays, looks, sounds, and IS just like an original Strat!".

Newc

[Jim Shine]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

Originally posted by Newc:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, thats why it took them almost 20 years to listen to the "collectors" and finally make the reissues kind of correct.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly. Because the *REAL* die-hard high-pocket collectors didn't want the RIs to be correct, they wanted people to pay the cash for their original 50s museum pieces. When ReIssues are 100% accurate to the originals, the value of the originals decreases because you have a large group of people who WANT an original but cannot afford one, so if they have the option of getting a new model that is exactly the same specs as the originals, then why should they pay the price for them? Therefore, the collectors (not the "Oh I love these, yeah they're great", but the "I bought this new in 58 and it's worth more than Bill Gates" collectors - the ones with glass tombs and climate-controlled vaults and multi-million dollar collections) see a decrease in interest in their originals. It's not a question of "Yeah, but this is an ORIGINAL Strat", it's a question of "Hey, this ReIssue plays, looks, sounds, and IS just like an original Strat!".

Newc </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That was the whole beef. The reissues of the 80's and 90's did NOT play just like an original Strat. The necks were thinner and incorrectly shaped, the bodies were obscenely obese compared to a slim vintage original. The only thing they got right was the name on the decal. People (even collectors) wanted gigable guitars that felt and sounded like the originals, which reissues simply could not deliver. Finally around '99 Fender fixed the body shape and thickness, the carve of the necks, and the design of the pickups. Yeah, there were purely cosmetic changes like fixing the headstock shapes, 12 fret dot marker spacings, and decal fonts, but those were not the real substantial changes made from the first generation of reissues. Collectors went to the Custom Shop for such guitars and the players *****ed at the factory to correct the production series so they could afford them. It just took Fender a long time to answer those demands as for many years they felt the original reissue was close enough to do the job. Reissues have done nothing more than drive up interest in originals from day one. Funny how the reissue series debuted in 1981 (1982 for the Strat) and the major increase in values occured around 1987-8 and have only gained each year since. The relic line debuted in 1995 and the revised reissue series a few years later, neither of which has touched the values of vintage versions. Many collectors feel that reissues and relics drive the demand for vintage originals. So far they haven't been wrong.

[Newc]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

That was my whole point - the Uber-collectors were holding Fender back from doing 100% accurate reissues. The players wanted a new Strat that was identical to the 50's models without paying out the ass for one, and the people who wanted players to pay out the ass wanted them to HAVE to pay out the ass, otherwise we "Poor folk" would have a guitar like theirs, only newer, and as any good Purist Nazi Collector will tell you, that's a bad thing (for the Purist Nazi Collectors).

Fender are so busy catering to these same people's elitist desires that they simply will not allocate the resources to post a few HTML pages unless it somehow drives up their balance. Fender doesn't want us buying old Jacksons, they want us to buy new ones. They figure that without the MOAI pages, more people will buy new rather than old.

You see how many Fender employees have stampeded in here to reassure us that they care about the Jackson buying public recently?
Honeymoon's over, time to get back to business as usual.

Newc

[jackson1]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

What does MOAIP hold that are so precious? Productions specs on every serial#?

Yes, i really don't know what it is, because i have never seen it.

[elrrek]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

Originally posted by jackson1:
What does MOAIP hold that are so precious? Productions specs on every serial#?

Yes, i really don't know what it is, because i have never seen it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL - I love this post, puts it into perspective!

I do miss the MOAIP though, I used to just browse through it looking at all the cool stuff that MUST be out there somewhere [img]graemlins/drool2.gif[/img]

[jackson1]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

Supeeeerb answer there! Thanks!

[sully]

Re: why didn\'t fender put up the mother of all info pages?

the fender guys don't come in here b/c we as a board (and myself personally at times) were flat out dicks to them.

any company has the right to protect its property. the moaip was/is their property. they don't care if we have it, but it has to be in a different format than the original, or "their property." yes, they coulda said, "sure, knock yourselves out and host it however you want!" but they didn't. it doesn't make them nazis.

you guys can bash fender all you want; you're entitled to feel how you do. but when they come in and focus on addressing quality issues that have plagued the company since AMIC took over, they invest in the factory, keep the pricing in line with where it was, they BROUGHT MIKE SHANNON BACK, and they come here from time to time and ask our thoughts. they've given members of this board tours, and were really cool to us at NAMM. WTF more do you want? do you honestly think that they're gonna put 11 hole pickguards on soloists? think there's gonna be 3 single coils and a tele headstock on a rhoads? afraid that all the neck profiles are gonna have a 10" radius, and have a big 50's V shape to the back now? ya think there's gonna be a "dinkystang?" (no pat, that's NOT your own model..heehee) do you think that they're gonna run the place into the ground? what proof do you see to back any of that up? none! i'll never own a fender, but the reason is because i'm not a fan of the necks. not to say i won't find one i like, but i'm also not looking.

so far, they're listening; they're putting money into the company, and improving it. yes, there are some changes that i'm not wild about, and there may be things down the line that i may not like...but y'know what? WHATEVER! when it comes down to it, we are a very small voice. we're a niche, guys. and while we may have some input to fender from time to time, we're a VERY small minority compared to the rest of the guitar buying public.

imo, you're mainly pissed b/c "your dad's guitar company" now owns yours.

sully

[ May 08, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: jsullysix ]