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**LastInLine** · 07-25-2008, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by sonicsamurai View Post

the trouble is dean will do anything to make money including sullying a great dead players name by turning it into a marketing machine

Originally posted by guitarzan2 View Post

Ever heard of Randy Rhoads? Give a little thought to the brand and company that is still raping his name today and putting him on the cover of their catalogs.

Some of the blame has to go to the families of these dead musicians, or to whoever owns the rights to their names or estates. Especially in Dimebag's case. I don't know how the people pulling the strings over at Abbott camp look themselves in the mirror.

**Robert Hendrix** · 07-25-2008, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Confuse-a-Cat View Post

True, but personally I'd rather have sharkies than LTD inlays, I'd rather have the Duncans than the EMGs, and I'd prefer the Jackson pointy up the other end! I'll admit, though that the OFR is a very good addition for the price. LTD have the advantage of being able to put fancier hardware on their guitars than similar priced Jacksons because they'll have cheaper costs in Korea than Jackosn do in Japan, but for me, MIJ is a big selling point for the pro series and of course the trem can always be swapped out.

It seems reading that back that I'm trying to bash LTD, which I'm not. But, I think that if I were to buy ESP, I would save for a proper MIJ ESP rather than a LTD, since they're still cheaper than USA Jacksons. Well they are in the UK at least.

I agree, but the point is not what we, the more informed, discriminating musicians prefer. The point I'm trying to make is that the ESPs, even the LTD models are good looking, inexpensive guitars with a recognizable name, popular endorsers and easy access to the less informed, less discriminate player or student. These kids don't have a clue where they are made, not do they care. And most of the wouldn't know the difference between an OFR and a Licensed FR. All they know is that ESP is avalable and theirs heros play them..

**MEX3** · 07-25-2008, 09:02 PM

A couple points

Ummm, maybe the people that are buying the most Jacksons are actually in working bands and don't have time to waste on an internet board.

That RD cat is a "working musician" and posts alot here. Maybe they do have time and RD is the only guy who plays them?

The two GC's here in Vegas don't even carry USA's anymore. I have to go to (gulp) Ed Romans for a USA Jackson, and as far as I know, nobody carries Charvel.

Remember pre buyout when the big complaint was that all GC carried was Black Soloists & Rhoads and that it took 4 months for an USA select in another colour to come in? Who would have thought that things could get worse?

I've been told by more than one dealer that Jackson's quality has gone so far downhill that they won't sell them anymore. It's really sad and driving people away from the brand, IMO.

It's true. I love my Jacksons, but would as soon lop off my right hand as buy another new one. Plenty of the long time fans are turned off by the shenanigans of the custom shop. They've spent hard earned $ on Jacksons that weren't up to snuff. Hell, there are plenty of guys who had messed up gutars and they still accepted them.
I've seen poor fretwork, twisted necks, misalligned floyds, defective nuts, wrong bridges, wrong paint, wrong inlays, wrong wood, wrong tuners, wrong everything.
Jackson used to be known for top quality of everything. Now, they can't even follow their own work orders. It's pathetic really. I was prepared to order 1 new custom per year. They lost my business and how.

Ever heard of Randy Rhoads? Give a little thought to the brand and company that is still raping his name today and putting him on the cover of their catalogs.

True dat. I've said it before myself...

I don't see this in quite the same light. The Rhoads is to Jackson what the Les Paul is to Gibson. These two will always be tied to their respective axes bearing their names no matter what.

Only difference is that both Les and Randy's favorite guitars were Gibson Les Pauls.

**roodyrocker** · 07-25-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by MEX3 View Post

Remember pre buyout when the big complaint was that all GC carried was Black Soloists & Rhoads and that it took 4 months for an USA select in another colour to come in? Who would have thought that things could get worse?

It's true. I love my Jacksons, but would as soon lop off my right hand as buy another new one. Plenty of the long time fans are turned off by the shenanigans of the custom shop. They've spent hard earned $ on Jacksons that weren't up to snuff. Hell, there are plenty of guys who had messed up gutars and they still accepted them.
I've seen poor fretwork, twisted necks, misalligned floyds, defective nuts, wrong bridges, wrong paint, wrong inlays, wrong wood, wrong tuners, wrong everything.
Jackson used to be known for top quality of everything. Now, they can't even follow their own work orders. It's pathetic really. I was prepared to order 1 new custom per year. They lost my business and how.

Only difference is that both Les and Randy's favorite guitars were Gibson Les Pauls.

Uh, a few points need to be made here. First, GC doesn't stock a lot of USA made Jacksons because GC wants large numbers of guitars. Large numbers as in Jackson can't make that many and maintain high quality. This I was told by higher ups at Jackson at NAMM a couple years ago.
Second, I think you're exagerating the "quality problem" at the custom shop. Getting the wrong specs on your order is not a good thing and I'm not defending it but I'm sure the actual quality of the instrument in 99% of the cases is great. If you don't want to order another Jackson thats O.K. I'm just saying that I have not seen many Jacksons with the host of problems you listed.
And finally, if Randy's favorite guitars were Les Pauls why did he only play one of them yet continuosly sought more personalized guitars? First the Sandoval, then the original Concorde, and then the Black/Gold string thru. What happened to that perfect Les Paul?

**chrisolson** · 07-25-2008, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by Confuse-a-Cat View Post

I would save for a proper MIJ ESP rather than a LTD, since they're still cheaper than USA Jacksons.

They oughtta be...

Comparing MIJ ESP's to USA J/C's is not apples to apples IMHO.

**chrisolson** · 07-25-2008, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Newc View Post

Are their "OFR"s the Chinese-made version, or the Schaller-made?

I dunno. Not bashing Jackson - just an observation. I had a DK2M. It was nice, but not great. I had a Viper 400 & EC-1000 that I thought were better quality with more bang for the buck. YMMV, and frankly, I don't care one way or the other. I'm not loyal to any brand - I buy what I like at that moment in time. Maybe it's a J/C, ESP, Fender, Gibson...whatever.

FWIW - I don't care where the OFR was made. It's still better than a JT-580. I don't care much for those - they feel and look cheap -- well, cheaper than any OFR I've had - but that's just my opinion.

**pro-fusion** · 07-25-2008, 11:23 PM

It's funny, I've tried out a number of LTD 400 and 1000 series guitars, and I have yet to find one that I'd buy over an SLSMG. The quality of the woods and fretwork just isn't there, IMHO. Good for you if you feel differently, though.

As to the original topic of the forum, does the shockingly low IQ I've seen demonstrated on the ESP board say anything about those guitars? Do they have lead-based paint that impressionable young axe-slingers are eating???

It's been my experience that message boards change over time. The JCF is a very different place than it was 5 or 6 years ago. Some of the freewheeling fun of the old days is gone. It might be that some of the 'tightness' around here showed up at the time of the FMIC takeover. There were a lot of opinions flying about, and a lot of skepticism. That seems to have split the community more than anything that's happened to the guitars themselves.

And I might say that there have always been weird little quality issues with Jacksons. Have you guys seen some of the haphazard Kahler string lock installations on Jacksons back in the San Dimas era? We're talking stuff that looked like an amateur retrofit. Cripes, if one of those showed up today, there'd be a 10-page thread about it.

My last San Dimas Soloist was a dog. It happens.

**lerxstcat** · 07-25-2008, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Sidk View Post

The two GC's here in Vegas don't even carry USA's anymore. I have to go to (gulp) Ed Romans for a USA Jackson, and as far as I know, nobody carries Charvel.

If you go to Ed Roman, you have to wonder whether you got a USA Jackson or a counterfeit.... since he's known for that, buy at your own risk.

**Sidk** · 07-26-2008, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by lerxstcat View Post

If you go to Ed Roman, you have to wonder whether you got a USA Jackson or a counterfeit.... since he's known for that, buy at your own risk.

Been there, done that. Mine was real but the run around to get it corrected was a nightmare(thank you McD). I no long go into his store.

And for the one that asked, he's still around.

**chrisolson** · 07-26-2008, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by pro-fusion View Post

As to the original topic of the forum, does the shockingly low IQ I've seen demonstrated on the ESP board say anything about those guitars? Do they have lead-based paint that impressionable young axe-slingers are eating???

Not really, and probably...

**VoiceX3** · 07-26-2008, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by MEX3 View Post

A couple points

That RD cat is a "working musician" and posts alot here. Maybe they do have time and RD is the only guy who plays them?

No, RD is a real cool dude and just posts a lot. I've been here since the 1st board and still just lurk for the most part. Between myself and my other guitarist (who NEVER posts on any forums) we have at least 6 Jacksons on stage for backups and different tunings at any moment. The other bands in our "family of sorts" in the area play jacksons too.....not a one of them is on here or bothers with message boards aside from promoting their shows on MySpace.

**satch0922** · 07-26-2008, 02:20 PM

Good discussion. I posted to learn something. Thank you.

**MEX3** · 07-26-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by roodyrocker View Post

Uh, a few points need to be made here. First, GC doesn't stock a lot of USA made Jacksons because GC wants large numbers of guitars. Large numbers as in Jackson can't make that many and maintain high quality. This I was told by higher ups at Jackson at NAMM a couple years ago.

So they used to be able to stock GC, but now they can't without sacrificing quality?
I thought they were supposed to get new machinery and tools that were supposed to increase production and decrease defects. Something doesn't add up there...

Originally posted by roodyrocker View Post

Second, I think you're exagerating the "quality problem" at the custom shop. Getting the wrong specs on your order is not a good thing and I'm not defending it but I'm sure the actual quality of the instrument in 99% of the cases is great. If you don't want to order another Jackson thats O.K. I'm just saying that I have not seen many Jacksons with the host of problems you listed.

Have a look see for yourself.

Offset trem:

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