Artist Signature guitar quality vs. Artists actual guitar

[neilli]

When Vai played with an orchestra in Holland the only thing he took with him were a toothbrush and clean underwear, the guitars and the amps were all supplied by the local distributors (there was not much budget for the project)

Interesting stuff Fred. I bet he'd have preferred to use his own gear if the budget had allowed though...

[Newc]

Vai didn't have enough of his own money to pay for his own gear to be shlepped to a gig? :ROTF"


And IIRC the "I can grab any JEM off the wall" comment was not about the 7VWH, it was about the Universe.



EJ - it was stated a few years ago that Jackson Custom Shops would be built by Mike Shannon, Pablo, and Tim Wilson. Granted this was after the Fender buyout and prior to that the same guy that built your proverbial RR1 built Mustain'es Customs, but these days Custom Shops are built by the "Masters", which is also what Fender does in their own line. Gibson also has a "Masterbuilt" setup for Custom Shop models.

Gibson was featured on Made In America (with Cliff Claven) a couple of years ago. They're building LPs and such in Memphis these days using local low-wage labor and CNC milling. They showed the guy responsible for the crappy finishes - he dances around this bench-grinder/buffer, knocking the masking tape off the frets and binding and basically ruining the finish. Honestly, he looked drunk.

[pro-fusion]

So now, this brings up another question.

How does the production vs artist guitars (note I don't mean just signatures but anything built specifically for an artist) work?

It varies from company to company.

Jackson is the only one I know of who has their regular USA folks build both artist guitars and regular guitars. There might be some difference in attention to detail, but there isn't a different process. Edit--I wondered about the "Master built" thing, but I believe that applies to both artist guitars and regular custom order, doesn't it?

I'm not as sure what happens for Jackson artists who have import sig models, however. Christian Olde Wolbers primarily uses Jackson custom shop guitars in the studio, though he does bring his bolt-on import sig model out on the road, since he doesn't want to subject his USA guitars to getting all beat-up. He doesn't seem as picky as someone like Vai, however. I don't know as much about the other Jackson endorsers with import sig models.

Ibanez has a custom shop in L.A. that builds nothing but one-off guitars for their front-line endorsers like Vai, Satch, Gilbert etc. They are considerably better than the production Ibanez models, apart from the Japanese-only J-Custom models. You and I cannot order guitars from the LA custom shop, though they show up on eBay occasionally when an endorser switches brands etc. Some of the lower-level Ibanez endorsers probably just get free production guitars or such.

Gibson has a separate custom shop that builds both endorsers' guitars and the high-end vintage reissues. The quality level of guitars out of the Gibson custom shop is *considerably* higher than the regular production Gibsons. Fender does the same thing, I believe.

ESP gives high-level endorsers custom-shop guitars, which you yourself can order from the custom shop if you're willing to pay $$$$$ for them. Lower-level endorsers get free production guitars of their signature model, I believe.

[Rich#6]

Artists on fly-in dates usually have the venue rent equipment. Guitars don't fare to well on airlines, too cold in cargo hold and breakage from poor handling. Let's not forget about possibly being lost. Renting a guitar costs more than bringing it on a plane. The only flyin date I can remember them bringing a guitar we had to rent one anyway as backup. $1000+ to rent a f-hole gibson.
Our "REAL" musicians come by bus.

[Newc]

Edit--I wondered about the "Master built" thing, but I believe that applies to both artist guitars and regular custom order, doesn't it?

Yes, all Jackson Custom Shop models are built by "the masters". That was part of the takeover announcement IIRC.

However, if someone is dumb enough to Custom Order an SL1 with nothing different than the pickups or hardware color, then I'd assume they let the same guys that build a run-of-the-mill SL1 handle that.

I mean, how much extra skill does it take to fill that order?

[eakinj]

Cool. ok so one last question - and this is for any artist signature for any brand

Has there ever been an instance where the artist guitar was really different from the signature model at a high end price? I would imagine if there was there'd have been a big stink about it. As an example the black binding jackson uses on sig models where the artist is white binding. That's not a great example but it gets the idea across.

Like has there been a signature guitar that was one wood and the production signature was different? Not sure why they would do something like that but.. I don't know why companies would pass off nato and poplar as something else either.

[pro-fusion]

Yes, all Jackson Custom Shop models are built by "the masters". That was part of the takeover announcement IIRC.

However, if someone is dumb enough to Custom Order an SL1 with nothing different than the pickups or hardware color, then I'd assume they let the same guys that build a run-of-the-mill SL1 handle that.

I mean, how much extra skill does it take to fill that order?

No doubt. And if the differences are that small, replacing hardware and electronics yourself isn't exactly rocket science. As I get older, I find that the aesthetic stuff on guitars matters less to me. If I were to order a CS guitar, it would have major feature differences and/or very specific requirements as to neck measurements, tone woods etc.

[eakinj]

Yes, all Jackson Custom Shop models are built by "the masters". That was part of the takeover announcement IIRC.

However, if someone is dumb enough to Custom Order an SL1 with nothing different than the pickups or hardware color, then I'd assume they let the same guys that build a run-of-the-mill SL1 handle that.

I mean, how much extra skill does it take to fill that order?

Oh come on! I mean gold painted EMG's and a little "Custom shop" logo is well worth the the mark up price

[Newc]

Cool. ok so one last question - and this is for any artist signature for any brand

Has there ever been an instance where the artist guitar was really different from the signature model at a high end price? I would imagine if there was there'd have been a big stink about it. As an example the black binding jackson uses on sig models where the artist is white binding. That's not a great example but it gets the idea across.

Like has there been a signature guitar that was one wood and the production signature was different? Not sure why they would do something like that but.. I don't know why companies would pass off nato and poplar as something else either.

I seem to recall Brooks saying that Phil Collen's actual PC1 (the one he owned and Brooks bought from him and was used on stage by Phil) has a much thicker neck than the USA Select PC1. I don't recall if he said there was a difference in body wood.

I think he said the same thing about Phil's original Archtop vs the production model, but can't be sure.

As well, as I understand it, Mark Morton's personal Dominions are solid, not chambered like the sig model.

Not sure if Scott Ian's personal models were different from the production sigs, or the Dave/Marty models, or the Demmel, or how different the Lachman Proto was from Pat's intended version.

[Endrik]

When Vai played with an orchestra in Holland the only thing he took with him on the flight were a toothbrush and clean underwear, the guitars and the amps where all supplied by the local distributors (there was not much budget for the project)
so it is possible to play on an off the rack guitar (althoug he did request that a sustainer was installed in the guitars)

QUOTE=Davey;1194843]it's probably the same, as it's built by the same guys. i'd say a touch more attention to detail and shorter turnaround times, but that'd probably be it..


i always laugh at "the production model is the same as my actual one" line. I remember steve vai saying something similar as collen. about how he can pick up any jem off the wall and he'd be perfectly comfortable with it and yadda yadda... but i know for a fact that the neck on Evo is NOTHING like the neck on a jem7wh.. it's been replaced a couple of times though :P

[/QUOTE]

Steve's own main Jems are custom made in US and that is that

[Brooke]

Now what about limited Run jacksons? Are they made my the likes of Shannon, Pablo, etc?

[Davey]

When Vai played with an orchestra in Holland the only thing he took with him on the flight were a toothbrush and clean underwear, the guitars and the amps where all supplied by the local distributors (there was not much budget for the project)
so it is possible to play on an off the rack guitar (althoug he did request that a sustainer was installed in the guitars)

evo was there (i highly doubt he ever leaves the house without it) but he played the black indutrial type jem with the screwhead inlays instead, cos he liked the sound of it. he also played flo (you can see it behind him most of the time) and a blue off the shelf jem, so dont give me that BS.also, he didnt ask for a sustainer to be put on the guitars.
the amps yes, they are exactly what you get in the shops and he didnt have his pedal board with him, but guitars.. ooooh yeah, you bet your ass he had em with him.
and as to why he can play anything off the rack, just as well as his own? cos he's the fucking master of guitar, that's why.

the reason, why jackson has equal quality across the board (USA select, limited runs, custom shop) is that the same guys are involved in the building process.

[Eddie_van_trailerpark]

Yes, all Jackson Custom Shop models are built by "the masters". That was part of the takeover announcement IIRC.

Yeah...I been thinking about that. I was thumping around with a few of my guitars. I'll admit it...some never leave the case.

I was comparing the neck on my DeMartini's to my USA production guitars. There's not much difference there. Neiter of my DeMartini's have a 'custom shop' sticker on them. I did play a WD sig with a custom shop sticker and the neck felt quite a bit wider/thinner versus those without.

I'd be interested to hear an official word from somebody at J/C(Fender) whether or not the WD signature guitars were made by hand versus cnc cut. They all look just a little to similar, I'm afraid.......

[pro-fusion]

Has there ever been an instance where the artist guitar was really different from the signature model at a high end price? I would imagine if there was there'd have been a big stink about it. As an example the black binding jackson uses on sig models where the artist is white binding. That's not a great example but it gets the idea across.

Many instances of that, though mostly just small aesthetic stuff. Kevin Bond's personal guitars have different (more expensive) inlays than the production guitars. Obviously, the production JEM doesn't come with a Sustainer, though I don't know whether Vai gets his that or way or whether he installs them later.

There are some ESP endorsers who only have LTD signature models, and their personal custom-built guitars are *way* different than the production guitars.

[Gartron]

Just a hunch , but I would bet the production model of serial endorser Paul Stanley's Silvertone line were radically different from the one he used to use