Ed Roman now copies the Demon and War Angel

[RacerX]

You caught him on a good day. I had him scream at me once and at NAMM I asked him some pointed questions about BCRs, who makes them, etc. He had to pause a lot, asked me "who ARE you?".

You should have said "Ken Francis! Now turn around!" Bwahhahahahahaha!! :ROTF:

[Learn Guitars]

You know, I am not really sure that you haven't violated some of Ed's Privacy rights here. Unless you got permission to release this phone call to the public, you may be in breach of privacy. I would remove this link to avoid further complications that you are already having with him.

[Strangletooth]

You know, I am not really sure that you haven't violated some of Ed's Privacy rights here. Unless you got permission to release this phone call to the public, you may be in breach of privacy. I would remove this link to avoid further complications that you are already having with him.

Mike, you've got a very valid point here and there are some Federal laws prohibiting wire taps, telephone recordings, etc.

Matt, I would remove the recording personally and talk to an attorney about it, seriously. I'm just coming in here at the end of this and haven't read anything beyond this page, but what did Jackson say? How did he get this design in the first place? You're definitely in sticky territory here, one which I would avoid like the plague or walk very lightly as it pertains to the phone conversation. Roman's got money and attorney's out the ass and I don't think he would hesitate to sue over something as small as this recording, but who knows.

I'd be more interested in finding out how he got the design in the first place. I think the rest of his claims are BS, Jackson allows him to do copies of custom runs, etc? pffft riiiiiight!

Good luck bro, keep us posted.

[Grandturk]

Well, if Jackson hasn't contacted him with a cease and desist, then they have, in fact, "allowed" him to make copies.

[Davey]

i also find the claim, that jackson allows him to do the models they discontinued, or did as a one off. this would be a bad business move, because they would be out of a sale, if someone wanted that guitar as a custom shop.

can't someone just bomb his place and rid the world of that cockroach?

[Newc]

MP3 deleted and link removed.

However, here's this from http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/tennessee.html

Tennessee
A person who is a party to a wire, oral, or electronic communication, or who has obtained the consent of at least one party, can lawfully record a communication and divulge the contents of the recorded conversation unless he has a criminal or tortious purpose. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-13-601

But, in the issue of Interstate calls, the stricter State's rule may apply. Nevada says all parties must be aware of it (gee, wonder why? )

So, I admit wrongdoing in that, and apologize to the JCF/Jeremy/the Admins/Pat for putting them at risk by posting it.

[Newc]

As for how he got the design, he said in an email that a customer sent him the design as a Custom Shop order.

I'd like to find that particular asshat and break his fingers. If the alleged customer saw it, then he saw the Jackson logo on it. Common courtesy and good manners dictate you wouldn't take it to ESPee, Ibenhad, Gibson, or Ed Roman - you'd get it from Jackson.
But I guess that's not a realistic concept these days.


I'm not privvy to any deal he has with Jackson regarding what is allowed or not. I also disagree that "no C&D means it A-OK". Silence does not equal compliance. Many times such silence can be used as bait to lure someone into a trap. However, as we've seen so many times, Man doesn't need much bait or much luring - he'll find his own way into a trap even without sufficient bait. Sometimes without bait at all.

[Strangletooth]

MP3 deleted and link removed.

However, here's this from http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/tennessee.html




But, in the issue of Interstate calls, the stricter State's rule may apply. Nevada says all parties must be aware of it (gee, wonder why? )

So, I admit wrongdoing in that, and apologize to the JCF/Jeremy/the Admins/Pat for putting them at risk by posting it.

Dude, you don't have to apologize to anyone here for it, not in my opinion anyway and again, I ain't nobody here, just a member. I was just giving you a friendly heads up is all and possibly saving you some grief. Just lookin out bro, nothing more than that! I'm sure Mike was doing the same thing. I actually enjoyed it, too bad we never got Ron on video at NAMM with Mr. Ed, now that would have been fukkiin great! I remember tho! Good stuff Ronnie!

[Newc]

Well, had he run across this thread, he would have had grounds for a lawsuit againt Jeremy, the Admins, and you as the owner of the server, as well as against me. I was going by TN law regarding the phone thing, but didn't consider the Interstate Call angle. Not that a judge woulda cared, he'd have just ruled on the Nevada law.

Anyhoo, he never did call me back last night. Maybe he's the one that sent me the viral e-cards?

Doing a Google for "Ed Roman", you find a guy doing advanced Java programming.


Hmmm....

[Strangletooth]

Well, had he run across this thread, he would have had grounds for a lawsuit againt Jeremy, the Admins, and you as the owner of the server, as well as against me. I was going by TN law regarding the phone thing, but didn't consider the Interstate Call angle. Not that a judge woulda cared, he'd have just ruled on the Nevada law.

Anyhoo, he never did call me back last night. Maybe he's the one that sent me the viral e-cards?

Doing a Google for "Ed Roman", you find a guy doing advanced Java programming.


Hmmm....

Eh, touchy subject, but the actual recording wasn't hosted here I don't believe, so I don't "think" he'd have a case against the board/provider, nothing more than a C/D for removal of the thread most likely. I would have left it to Jeremy personally and speaking on behalf of the provider side of things. We get these types of things once in a while, and if it's not blatantly illegal, we'll forward it to the client and be done with it.

I'd be more interested to know how/where he got the design to be honest. Is there a mole at Jackson? :think: Or did a forum member send it over? He acted like he never saw yours, color, etc, so who knows. What did he say about the controls, or lack thereof? I don't recall.

Who knows, just keep us updated pls. Also, gonna send you a pm later on the D Lawrence thing we talked about a lil while back.

[Newc]

All he ever said about the design as far as where he got it from was in an email, in that he says a customer sent him the design as a custom shop order.

Guy sees it on the internet, guy decides to order from the least-reputable name on the internet, I can see it


As for lack of controls on mine, he said the pic on the site is the unfinished version (no paint, etc) and that with the available configuration options, he could put whatever controls on it a customer wanted.

But, and this is the part I can't get him to understand, the number of pickups, the controls or lack thereof, the number of frets, the color, the body wood, and the hardware options are not the issue. To me, the issue is that if you took both mine and his and laid them on a sheet of paper and traced them with a pencil you'd have 2 copies of the same tracing. It's the outline that I designed, not the pickup/hardware config or construction method.

Unfortunately I think I may have opened Pandora's Box on this by emailing him to begin with. Had I left it alone, chances are that he would never have made another, and no one would ever have known about his copy of it. As it is now, his level of interest in retaining it is directly tied to my level of interest in not letting him make them.

If I let it go, does he see that as me giving it away and then make that a production model? Or does he make the one and never another?

Psychologically, it's a fascinating study, but in the end it's just an eternal tug-of-war.

[Learn Guitars]

Newc,
I wasnt trying to be negative in anyway. Just wanted to help get you out of a situation before it developed. Best of luck with this issue.

Mike

[Dogbone]

Well... If jackson isn't going to do anything, or doesn't care :think: Before I would just give it up to him, I would try an get an agreement in writing from Roman to at least do as he said, and pay you the 100 bucks for each one he makes... It's better than nothing....
Still blows to see a tool like him even making copies... But what can you do... It seems this is the way he has ran his business for years. Copying other companies work, and then claiming that his is far superior to the original
Good luck with whatever you may do

[toejam]

Well... If jackson isn't going to do anything, or doesn't care :think: Before I would just give it up to him, I would try an get an agreement in writing from Roman to at least do as he said, and pay you the 100 bucks for each one he makes... It's better than nothing....
Still blows to see a tool like him even making copies... But what can you do... It seems this is the way he has ran his business for years. Copying other companies work, and then claiming that his is far superior to the original
Good luck with whatever you may do

Jackson also did at least one custom shop order of this after Newc's. I posted a thread about it, but now I can't find it. And it's still lame the Ed is making copies of it.

Edit: Here's the other one. http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/show...ight=War+Angel

[rjohnstone]

They can place that anywhere but haven't and can't enforce the body design.
They can try to convince people that they can enforce it.
Or make it financially unsound to try to fight it.

You're confusing copyrights with trademarks.
You cannot copyright the shape of a guitar body OR headstock.
You can trademark them.
Trademarks are harder to get, but infringement is easier to prosecute.

FENDER®, STRATOCASTER®, STRAT®, TELECASTER®, TELE®, P BASS®, PRECISION BASS®, and the distinctive headstock and body designs of the STRATOCASTER, TELECASTER and P BASS guitars are trademarks of Fender Musical Instruments Corporation.

FMIC owns the trademarks for the above product lines with the ® after their names.
Those names cannot be placed on any guitar or used in advertising by anyone other than FMIC or it's authorized agents.

As for the body design, you can own a trademark for it, but enforcement may be difficult given the outcome of the Gibson v. PRS lawsuit.

I guarantee that FMIC will be all over some one like stink on shit if they copied the headstock shape though.