Anyone else want to see Jackson/Charvel evolve and go "mainstream"?

[AK47]

I think Jackson has become stagnant as a company and stopped evolving long ago.

I would like to see new models and a evolution to a more "mainstream" audience.

I am talking about a whole new look with new logos and bodies and everything.

I think they had the right idea with the NASL and they should have kept going that way.

At one time Jackson was mainstream and now they are a niche company.

I say keep the classics but lets take a risk and do PRS/McNaught custom24 type stuff with maybe a slightly more "Jacksonesque" headstock. Keep the fancy tops and woods. Look into deep setneck construction but dont copy PRS all the way. Keep the bodies nice and rounded and limit the headstocks to the only pointy things on the new models just not too pointy.

You can only redo the soloist so many times and it gets old.

I also would like Charvel to do more neck-thru based stuff with strat heads including bass guitars. Charvel needs to go after the bass players to break new ground.

I am just so tired of the same old stuff airbrushed and maybe some cut-outs added. Its unique but it can only be done so many times.

What say you guys?

I dont want to turn this into the same old Jackson should re-release this model and I want to see more humbucker and single coil combos like they had on the Predator back in 87. I am talking about brand new stuff and which direction they should head...

[levantin]

I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wouldn't like to see a PRS style Jackson. If I want a PRS I'd get a PRS. I play kellys and rhoads, I want more options on those guitars, and Jackson has started to deliver in the past few years. I think they need more high profile endorsees as ESP has become the "number 1" metal guitar sought after by the kids. Apart from that, I would change nothing. Just my .02

[AK47]

I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wouldn't like to see a PRS style Jackson. If I want a PRS I'd get a PRS. I play kellys and rhoads, I want more options on those guitars, and Jackson has started to deliver in the past few years. I think they need more high profile endorsees as ESP has become the "number 1" metal guitar sought after by the kids. Apart from that, I would change nothing. Just my .02

Look at how ESP has evolved and offered a little something for everyone. That is why they are huge and in demand. Its not just the artist.

They offer awesome basses and everything from the eclipse to the viper. They have taken classic designs and modernized them.

I would love to see Jackson do that. I would buy a Jacksonized SG or Viper equivalant in a hot second. I was using the PRS as an example but there are tons of ways Jackson can evolve.

Why just stick with the same models? I am not saying discontinue them just try something new.

[Foulacy]

yea esp has a whole slew of models. I agree, a jackson SG or les paul would be KILLER. I too think jackson should branch out.

[Newc]

Agreed.

While Metal may be making a strong comeback (movie and TV soundtracks - at least music-wise more than vocally), you need a long-term plan in place now to be ready for the next shift in preference. As history indicates, it'll go back to "the basics", and Strats and Les Pauls will be favored over pointy-body geetars.

Unfortunately FMIC breaks their sub-brands up into niche-targeting brands, keeping their own primary models in the "mainstream" popular-music market. They cover Blues, Jazz, Country, Pop and Adult-oriented genres with a handful of models, and target "high-pocket fanboys" with things like the Eric Johnson, Robin Trower, Clapton, and other sig model Strats, Teles, and the Robben Ford thing.


I've said many times before I'd love to see the NASL as a USA Select model, though I disagree about putting a pointyhead on it.


Some folks have said the NASL's head is too "PRS":

NASL head:





PRS head:




I don't see enough similarity to not use the NASL headstock. Even the SLS or Morton head would be acceptable.


For Jackson:

-Bring back the Jazz'R to target the Country, Rock, and Jazz players, but only use the C or D-shaped neck profile - no Hard Vs. As well, you only need the tops to be quilted, and the backs need to have standard cavities and covers.

-Rebuild the USA SLS more to the NASL body specs (the horns are different) with mahogany bodies and mahogany through-necks with rosewood and/or maple boards and figured maple tops (quilted and flamed) with the NASL or Morton/SweeTone headstock and a stopbar or Wilkinson trem to get the "Fender non-Strat/Tele" players.


I do disagree with Charvel doing neck-through, however, unless it's the Questar or other non-Strat/Soloist model. The only reason they even had the neckthrough Charvels to begin with was because Charvel was the import brand and Jackson was the USA brand. Putting Charvel logos on SL3s and SL4s is counter-productive IMO, with or without a Strathead on it. Keep Charvels bolt-on, but add the Star to the USA Production Series with the same feature set and similar pricing as the Style 1/2/SoCal (basic solid colors, limited run candy colors, 1-piece maple necks, Floyds, 2 hums).

Definitely add a Strathead/P-style bass, though. P+J or bar/wide style pickups, maple and rosewood boards (if 1-piece maple bass necks can't be done).



However, this thread will be buried like the last one was because of FMIC's inflexibility and relative indifference.

[Newc]

Jackson had an SG-type model in the works: The Pat Lachman sig. Most uncomfortable Jackson body I've ever encountered. Make it longer and fix the arm bevel, and give BC Rich back their headstock and front horns, maybe it'll work.

But then you either end up with an SLS or Soloist to avoid the Gibson and Fender complaints.

I agree Jackson has tons of models, but frankly aside from the Warrior and SLS, none of them appeal to me. The Soloists are missing "something" - or they have too much of "something" - I can't quite place it, but I've sold every Soloist I've owned because I don't like the body.

The pointy Metal guitars are nice and all, but they're not for everyone, as AK47 stated. Every other maker has something for "everyone", why not Jackson?

[AK47]

I like the NASL head stock and Newc I am with you on not using the standard Pointy headstock. I was thinking more along the lines of a NASL with a point on it instead of the rounded nub.

I think Jackson can be really huge if they got into doing hotrod neck thru SGs and LPs with Floyds. As well as new designs.

They have to stop catering to us guys that are stuck in 86 and move on to more diverse music players. Stop catering specifically to us Metalheads.

They have huge talent in the luthier pool at J/C and I would like to see Mike Shannon do something new with his talent besides the same old soloist RR varients. If I was him I would eventually dread going to my job having to build the same stuff over and over again.

Jackson is trying to branch out in the wrong direction currently by trying to go more "extreme" and more "pointy" they need to do the exact opposite.

[Newc]

Well, sharpen the nub and someone will cry "reverse PRS head waaaaah!"

And yeah, I'm sure Shannon and the bunch do get tired of constantly building the same shapes over and over ad nauseum. Maybe that's why Pablo is doing tons of "extreme" models - to break up the monotony.

Haven't seen them make anything like the Benetton Racer, Machine Gun, Axe, or even the Warthog in years!

WTF? Is there a "Creativity Not Allowed" or "All New Ideas Must Be Approved By The Committee" sign in the shop these days?


I've given up hope on getting Gibson shapes with Jackson improvements.

[quiksilver]

Wow, I completely disagree with all of these terrible, misguided ideas. Yuk. Copying PRS and ESP? Going "mainstream"? Making novelty guitars (i.e., machine gun, axe)? WTF?!? Are you on dope? Hopped up on goofballs?

Jackson has an identity, and it's a great one. That has great value. You don't just piss that away because you're bored. The advantage to Jackson being under the FMIC umbrella is that it allows Jackson to focus on that identity and kick ass for that niche, instead of having to try to appeal to everyone with mainstream blandness or copies.

Like Levantin said, if I want a PRS, I'll get one. I don't want to see Jackson watering down its brand by copying the latest trend. Fortunately, it seems that the people running Jackson understand the value of the Jackson legacy with its new slogan, "The Bloodline" making apparent reference to it.

I think the people running Jackson and Charvel are doing a great job of recognizing the value in these companies. Charvel has been brilliant with its new USA line. I agree that top-flight endorsers are important. Insofar as product offerings go, here are some ideas that I've recommended before, which would offer something new and improved without diluting the brand:

1. Offer Soloists with various combinations of the following: Reverse headstocks, black hardware (even with figured tops), non-recessed OFRs, direct-mount (no ring) pickups, scalloped fretboards (full or partial), figured maple fretboards, and H/S pickup layouts - there are many ways this could be done, but I'm guessing the most profitable would be a series of "Limited Run" models with some combination of these options
2. Switch to "flight case" looking cases - I can't believe they have not done this by now. It is obviously cost-feasible, as Washburn did something similar with the Nuno models. But I'd like them to look more like the ones Charvel did with some of the EVH guitars. And while they're at it, make the inside of the case plush, deep and form-fit, like what Ibanez is now doing with its Prestige models - those are the best cases I've ever seen.
3. Re-release the Archtop Soloist - but Made in USA this time (maybe this will satisfy some of the desires noted by you guys - without diluting the brand)
4. Go back to dyed tops on PC1s, as the old tops look 100% better - and use more highly flamed maple for the fretboards - I can barely see the flame on most of the new PC1 necks. If Warmoth can offer killer figuring on a $300 neck, Jackson can do it on a $2000 guitar.

[DonP]

I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wouldn't like to see a PRS style Jackson. If I want a PRS I'd get a PRS. I play kellys and rhoads, I want more options on those guitars, and Jackson has started to deliver in the past few years. I think they need more high profile endorsees as ESP has become the "number 1" metal guitar sought after by the kids. Apart from that, I would change nothing. Just my .02

I agree.

If I want an SG shape, I by a Gibson. Same with a Les Paul.

ESP can make all the copies it want's, but if I want the real thing, I go after it.

I'm happy with the current line up of Jackson models. Soloist, Kelly, King V, Rhoads, and some archtop flavoring. Charvel is covering the strathead market.

[AK47]

Wow, I completely disagree with all of these terrible, misguided ideas. Yuk. Copying PRS and ESP? Going "mainstream"? Making novelty guitars (i.e., machine gun, axe)? WTF?!? Are you on dope? Hopped up on goofballs?

Jackson has an identity, and it's a great one. That has great value. You don't just piss that away because you're bored. The advantage to Jackson being under the FMIC umbrella is that it allows Jackson to focus on that identity and kick ass for that niche, instead of having to try to appeal to everyone with mainstream blandness or copies.

Like Levantin said, if I want a PRS, I'll get one. I don't want to see Jackson watering down its brand by copying the latest trend. Fortunately, it seems that the people running Jackson understand the value of the Jackson legacy with its new slogan, "The Bloodline" making apparent reference to it.

I think the people running Jackson and Charvel are doing a great job of recognizing the value in these companies. Charvel has been brilliant with its new USA line. I agree that top-flight endorsers are important. Insofar as product offerings go, here are some ideas that I've recommended before, which would offer something new and improved without diluting the brand:

1. Offer Soloists with various combinations of the following: Reverse headstocks, black hardware (even with figured tops), non-recessed OFRs, direct-mount (no ring) pickups, scalloped fretboards (full or partial), figured maple fretboards, and H/S pickup layouts - there are many ways this could be done, but I'm guessing the most profitable would be a series of "Limited Run" models with some combination of these options
2. Switch to "flight case" looking cases - I can't believe they have not done this by now. It is obviously cost-feasible, as Washburn did something similar with the Nuno models. But I'd like them to look more like the ones Charvel did with some of the EVH guitars. And while they're at it, make the inside of the case plush, deep and form-fit, like what Ibanez is now doing with its Prestige models - those are the best cases I've ever seen.
3. Re-release the Archtop Soloist - but Made in USA this time (maybe this will satisfy some of the desires noted by you guys - without diluting the brand)
4. Go back to dyed tops on PC1s, as the old tops look 100% better - and use more highly flamed maple for the fretboards - I can barely see the flame on most of the new PC1 necks. If Warmoth can offer killer figuring on a $300 neck, Jackson can do it on a $2000 guitar.

Under FMIC I cant even get the Jackson I want because of stupid self instituted policies like "Artist similar". No other guitar company has this policy.

What me and Newc are saying is dont discontinue the classic Jackson shapes just lets see something new.

I did not want this thread to turn back into one of those bring back this discontinued model type threads. I am hoping for new ideas.

I would like to see a Demon that has more squared away horns like the Ibanez 540p with a fancy top and a newer headstock and logo. That would be a good place to start.

I just am getting that feeling this is going to turn into one of those bring back the model series and bring back the student model type threads.

I cant beleive people think if Jackson introduces a new model it will some how hurt the "Bloodline".

[Larz]

I like where Jackson is at right now, and has been, catering to the rock/metal crowd. They've got a great thing going and they do it right. I think it gives them an elite/exclusive vibe.

Maybe they have internally looked at marketing these type of ideas discussed and the feedback was negative?

A Jackson PRS or LP model would look pretty much like a PRS or LP anyway, just like an ESP Eclipse LP looks like a Gibson LP, so I don't see the need to take that on. Doesn't necessarily mean stores will start stocking them over Fender or Gibson or Dean anyway.

I was talking to my 14 year old neighbor over the holidays and he was telling me he was in the jazz band at the highschool. I asked what type of guitar he had and to my surprise he said "Jackson". So regardless, people who like their quality can crossover with them if they want and play in non-metal setttings. Although they might need a pickup swap along the way.

[AK47]

Some of you guys have a hard time thinking outside the box or lack imagination or just hate change.

I am not talking about copies of PRS or a Les Paul or a SG I am talking about inspired by.

If I was in charge of Jackson I would design guitars that look alot like this bad ass guitar.

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87580

[Larz]

Ha ha, maybe so, change wouldn't affect my life much.

But there's a reason that Lamborghini doesn't make a minivan model.

[neilli]

I think part of battle that Jackson would have to fight is also down to market perception. There's a reason why Jackson discontinued the Sweetones i.e. they didn't sell.

Personally, I think offering a USA NASL would be worth a try, but I'd prefer to see them doing something like a regular production PC1 with no Sustainer and maybe (gasp) some more 'basic' options.