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**Newc** · 05-17-2003, 04:25 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Hot Rod - Because Insurance is extra, and they won't pay an insurance claim if you didn't buy insurance.

Newc

**JacksonShredder** · 05-17-2003, 05:19 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Ok Chuck,

What the hell is your problem. Come on Chuck tell every one What i Did to you..............................
HA you can't because i did nothing to you nothing........................................... .................

Now as far as Tommy Goes that has nothing to do with you............................................... ...................

The Smae goes for Pat............................................... ......................

No i tried to work things out with Tommy and Let me tell you Dave I sent him a guitar that he sold.............................................. ............................
if you had or have a problem with me then be a Man and call me don't post Crap on the Forum............................................. .................

Again i did nothing to you at all i just want to make that clear to eveyone out there.

No as far as Pat goes
here is the story again
i sold him a golf floyd rose trem he was late on sending the payment which i ask for PayPal or money order well i emailed him and he forgot to send it.
so he did i got it a few days later it was a check i held it for 10 days and Pat got upset.
i sent the floyd and some extra parts for FREE.............................................. .............

Also i offered Pat my Dragon Flying V. and i felt like he low-balled me on it.

Ok that is it nothing else.
i thought Pat was a good guy.

and Chuck one more thing i was poking fun at you about your guitar sorry if you can not take a Joke.............................................. ............................

Originally posted by Chuckracer:
Put your original post back up, Sid. Don't bother being a pussy now, you're already in it. You talk like a man, but when you get called on it you edit your post and try to claim innocence? The BS meter is off the sacle now, hero.

Edited to add post from my Soloist classified thread: <blockquote>quote:<hr /> I can't figure you out You sell that guitar you buy it back then you sell it and then you buy it back and now you are looking to sell it again.

And this is your business to air in public in exactly what way? Huh? Tommy was real happy with you for a very similiar thing, wasn't he? You didn't learn squat from that, I guess.
So now you figure this would be a great time to air some twisted laundry concerning Pat. You say this crap, then try to cover it all back up with apologies and edits.
What have you done to me? Made me not want to call you a friend, thats for goddam sure. Understand that, Mr. Delete? <hr /></blockquote>

**~K~** · 05-17-2003, 08:49 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Lemme state that I'm surprised one of my partners haven't locked this slugfest yet. I must say I have a lot of respect for Pat.
I truley believe Pat is a standup guy and anyone can to business with him in confidence.

With that stated .. GuitarZan..

1st If I buy a guitar from any respectable shop and it gets damaged in transit it is the responsibilty of the "Shipper" to take care of all issues. As a matter of fact if a recall properly because the shipper places insurance on the item it is ultimately his responsibility to file a claim. They will also give him the check when the pay. In the case of your guitar I saw the pictures and to be real honest if memory serves me correctly there was no damage done to the outside of the case yet there was extensive damage done to the guitar itself. When Pat asked me my opinion I asked how he paid then advised him to stop payment. No more no less .. He took my advice I beleive ....

Anytime you sell a guitar YOU are ultimately responsible for its safe deivery. YOU are the one who packs it, insures it and ships it. so again .. its YOUR responsibility.. Not Pats and certainly not your dads. If you wanna play and sell with the adults you have to step up like and adult and take the responsibility and not have your father do it for you. If you can't do that you have no business doing deals ...

**Guitarzan** · 05-17-2003, 08:50 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Originally posted by Cleveland Metal:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />The guitar got beat up in shipping and the neck cracked.

Weird how the case was fine and undamaged yet the guitar was bigtime snapped... Hmmm....
Dont post if you don't know what happened. The box was ripped and the case was dented in MANY places when I got it back from Pat. He even told me when he got it that the box was ripped and case was dented. The thing wouldn't even shut right.

Now, no store would do that for you, that isn't normal procedure. I told him that he should file the claim with FedEx and have them get him a refund but he refused to comply.

What?? Yer nutz. I've had damaged stuff from places replaced or reimbursed no questions asked, and ONCE even BEFORE I sent the $500 product back to them...
Well I've never had that kind of experience with ANY guitar store, so I'm sorry if I was wrong here.
{quote] He lied to PayPal and told them that the money was taken out of his account by accident or without his permission and put me in debt $1100. <hr /></blockquote>Ummm, k... You can just take money out of someones paypal account without their knowledge/permission?? Riiiight... You know that is not what happened...
You wanna bet? THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED...don't tell me otherwise because it was my ass that was in debt, not yours. You weren't even involved in the deal.

Some people should just stay out of some things, and your posts were BS PMS biotch whining. F-ing tards... [/QUOTE]

[ May 17, 2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Guitarzan ]

**Budman68** · 05-17-2003, 09:00 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Originally posted by KMaynard:
Lemme state that I'm surprised one of my partners haven't locked this slugfest yet.

In my humble opinion, I don't think this is a bad idea to let this thread be open for all to see. I think it may make us all think about dealing a little more in the future and be more responsible about how we conduct ourselves. I think it's an excellent example of what can happen when you don't take things seriously enough like dealing with other people online. People take this waaaaaay to lightly sometimes and don't realize the repercussions that come out in the end. I commend the admins for not removing it! [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Dave->

**Guitarzan** · 05-17-2003, 09:17 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

GuitarZan, you little fukkin fukk! I recived that axe, the neck was broken, I let you know about it and asked for a refund, obviously I don't want a broken guitar, so a refund was the ONLY solution to this transaction, period. I called you, your Dad assumed the conversation and I offered to take the guitar down to FedEx to expedite the claim process, this was on ME, my time! Did I have to do it? HELL NO! Why did I offer? Cause that's the kind of guy I am... Your Dad called me back, we had several conversations about the whole ordeal and in one of the initial conversations, your dad said, and I quote to the best of my recollection. "Well, you wanted the guitar, you sent the money for the guitar, we shipped you the guitar, therefore YOU OWN THE GUITAR", now if that's not some horseh!t, I don't know what is, so at that pojnt, I basically said, fukk it, I'm not going to go out of my way to make things easier for you as I previously stated, and immediately disputed the charges for the transaction at my bank, which in turn FUKKED UP my PayPal account... Now, you say "I stole" $1100 from you? **** you! I have all the pictures from that box and the damage doesn't match the box, so now I will make a public statement and say " I believe that guitar was broken before it was even shipped" you lil b!tch, you begged Brett for it, and how it was so kilelr and all of the sudden, you want to sell it a week later? FUKK U!

I sold it a couple of months later because I couldn't stand the recessed Floyd Rose system. That particular system is not for me and I didn't realize it before I bought this guitar, so I thought somebody else might enjoy it more than me. You had been offering me lots of trades and stuff for a long time for it before I sold it to you so I decided to sell it to you.

And on my mother grave I swear that I shipped that guitar in the most perfect of condition. When I recieved the guitar back from you, the case was beat to sh!t, the box was ripped in a few areas, and I saw the damage to the neck, and BELIEVE ME, I DID NOT DO THAT. Why the hell would I damage such a beautiful, awesome guitar, especially in KORINA?! I'm not out to screw ANYONE over, and you say that I damaged it? I bet I know exactly how FedEx cracked the neck on the guitar. I bet you that something heavy was put right on the headstock of the guitar, and it was pushed back thus causing the neck to crack. At least that's what the FedEx idiots told me when I was bringing it in to file the claim.

Originally posted by KMaynard:
Lemme state that I'm surprised one of my partners haven't locked this slugfest yet. I must say I have a lot of respect for Pat.
I truley believe Pat is a standup guy and anyone can to business with him in confidence.

With that stated .. GuitarZan..

1st If I buy a guitar from any respectable shop and it gets damaged in transit it is the responsibilty of the "Shipper" to take care of all issues. As a matter of fact if a recall properly because the shipper places insurance on the item it is ultimately his responsibility to file a claim. They will also give him the check when the pay. In the case of your guitar I saw the pictures and to be real honest if memory serves me correctly there was no damage done to the outside of the case yet there was extensive damage done to the guitar itself. When Pat asked me my opinion I asked how he paid then advised him to stop payment. No more no less .. He took my advice I beleive ....

Anytime you sell a guitar YOU are ultimately responsible for its safe deivery. YOU are the one who packs it, insures it and ships it. so again .. its YOUR responsibility.. Not Pats and certainly not your dads. If you wanna play and sell with the adults you have to step up like and adult and take the responsibility and not have your father do it for you. If you can't do that you have no business doing deals ...

Look, as said before, I viewed that kind of thing much differently from everybody on here. I felt like, as Pat said, my father had said to Pat 'we sold you the guitar, and shipped it, it's yours.' Now, I can see the faults in this kind of thinking right now, but still, that's how it went down.

As for no damage to the case and extensive damge to the guitar, when I got it back, the case was practically deformed. It wouldn't shut right, there were dents and scuffs everywhere. The only damage to the guitar was right where the neck meets the headstock, there was a deep crack. I didn't ship it out like that.

As for my dad handling this transaction, I get all my funds from a simple fast food job and with most of that money I buy guitars. I pay all the charges for shipping/insurance and such, and I buy my guitars myself. When my dad's PayPal account was out $1100, he wouldn't let me talk to Pat or even post on this message board until everything was settled. So the deal switched into his hands.

Pat, I don't really want to resurrect this into a big sh!tfight because this was over a long time ago. When I saw this post about a guy that wanted to know about dealings with Pat, I thought I would post mine. Now everybody is apparently pissed at me, so I'm not even gonna post about it anymore. I've already said all I can say about it.

**Guitarzan** · 05-17-2003, 09:36 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Pat, I pray for your child.

**~K~** · 05-17-2003, 09:41 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

I doubt everyones pissed at you. Fact is you chose to comment on this issue and people chose to take the other side. The point is simple .. You sell it, you ship it your responsible. Working in a fast food job is not a legit reason for not refunding the money. As a matter of fact if you look at this in a different light You worked out a deal with Pat and Pat as the seller ived up to his part of the bargain and wired you the money. He then got burnt on a guitar that was destroyed in transit. All he did was agree to a price and paid it. When he tried to work it out with you YOU and your DAD tried to screw him over and say .. it's your problem now instead or working with him. I think Pat was well within his rights to withdraw the paypal to protect himself. That's the point of using a credit card for transactions. The thing that I don't get is the fact that Pat lived up to his end was was an unsatsisfied consumer, yet he's getting a bad rep from you because he protected himself .. I just don't get it and to be honest after this came out here.. I'd bet a lot more people on this forum will think before doing business with you because of what happened ....

**toejam** · 05-17-2003, 09:41 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Originally posted by Boxcar Willie 84:
This reminds me of a story...

One time I bought a goldfish from a local petstore. Outside of the store these older guys started to harass me because I had a goldfish...the weakest of all household pets. They made me drop my goldfish. As I sat there and watched the poor little guy breathe his last breaths and flop around a bit, I felt myself getting very mad, and I felt something else....something was growing in my groin area. No no you sickos I wasn't getting a boner, but my level of testicular fortitude had grown immensely! I looked up at the guys that made my fish die, and I knew that then and there...it was time to get ill. I kicked those dudes' sissy asses! Moral of the story-walk softly til someone kills your fish...then it's time to get ILL!

That's beautiful, man! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Lots of "ill" references in there. Is that Ill Mitch? [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

**Top Jimmy B** · 05-17-2003, 09:48 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Wow. I was out of commission seven weeks due to chemo and I come back to the JCF and feel more nauseous NOW than during my treatments.
I've done numerous deals, via the classifieds, with forum members and always add the tag "so and so can vouch for me, we've done business". I do this because I don't use ebay very often and I want members to feel comfortable dealing with me...kind words from a respected forum member can mean a lot. But to look for references by starting a thread in a public and (sorry) often juvenile forum???? Man....I knew this was gonna be trouble from the moment I read the header.
I recently did a deal with Brett Coleman - he bought a Dinky from me and sent payment in two days - from Texas to Nova Scotia - very impressive. I, unfortunately was in the hospital when the deal went down and asked my sister to ship the guitar to Brett. Well, she shipped it a couple of days after I had told Brett that it was shipped - she lied to me so I, in effect, lied to Brett. I felt like crap and was very worried that Brett would be pissed and want to crucify me on the JCF for late shipping. He did not...he was actually quite gracious and a gentleman - and I was releived. But, if he did have a beef with me I would expect a private ass kicking from him as opposed to this nonsense.
Airing all this dirty laundry in public does nothing more than to sour experienced, knowledgable guys whose input we need to keep this forum viable.
Whew, I haven't written this many words since the letter of apology to that girl in my sixth grade class who I showed my pecker to. Good times.

**Tekky** · 05-17-2003, 09:50 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

In my opinion... Pat Rocks!! I haven't had any monetary dealings with him yet, but all the other dealings I've had with him were straight and on the level.

Not sure if that helps or not, but hey, that's my $.02.

**Guitarzan** · 05-17-2003, 09:51 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

I'm pretty sure I sold Charvel750 a Charvel 475 Deluxe a while ago and all turned out OK in that transaction.

We did try to work with Pat, told him to file the claim with FedEx and we were very confident that his money would be refunded but he didn't want to go thru with the wait so he decided to back out with his PayPal account and get his refund right away. That is still viewed by me as an act that was wrong, because we WERE trying to help him but he was just being impatient.

This thread needs to end...it's over, done with, and in the past. This happened many months ago, I'm sorry I even decided to tell this guy about my experience with Pat.

Really, my view on Pat is that he goes thru with his deals pretty well with most people, but since we ran into that problem that we didn't see eye to eye on, it got blown up. Everybody else has had fine experiences with him, so to the starter of this thread-Pat is an OK guy. There, can we end this?

**LouSiffer** · 05-17-2003, 10:02 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Hmmmmm......well.....I have never done anything for Pat and he has never done anything for me deal wise.....but, I have spent countless hours chatting with him on a personal level. Pat has shared things with me regarding his family issues pretty much before anyone else knew.
I am very proud and honored to say that I know Pat and feel that we are good friends. Pat has enough money ,that, if he felt he was in the wrong on any deal.....he would eat it. That's just the way he is.
I am not knocking anyone on here.....there is no point....I have no quarrels with anyone here.
In my opinion, Pat is one of a few people on this board that I would send a guitar and not stress about getting payment. Doc, Greg, Jeremy, Kev, Sully, Box, Ron ( the spell check geek), Matt from OSG,Chuck from KickAxe and maybe 1 or 2 others all fall into this category.
In fact, all those mentioned previously are the same people I hold to the highest thoughts and best wishes. We all may not agree all the time ,but, we have nothing but absolute respect for one another.-Lou

**Jim Shine** · 05-17-2003, 10:15 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

Originally posted by Guitarzan:
We did try to work with Pat, told him to file the claim with FedEx and we were very confident that his money would be refunded but he didn't want to go thru with the wait so he decided to back out with his PayPal account and get his refund right away. That is still viewed by me as an act that was wrong, because we WERE trying to help him but he was just being impatient.

That doesn't sound like help to me, it sounds like you were trying to blow him off. Helping would entail calling FedEx and finding out what the claims procedures are instead of just assuming it was his responsibility.

**Back For More** · 05-17-2003, 10:20 AM

Re: Hoping to deal with \'Stangletooth\', who can vouch for him?

I have had a past dealing with Pat (my White RR1)and he is a total standup guy. Answered a lot of questions and everything went the way it's supposed to. I would do another deal with him without a second thought.

Pat, as always my best to you and your family during this stressful time.

Jason

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