Jackson to relax many strict Custom Shop policies.

[toejam]

Wait, so jackson actually isnt making firebirds? thats not a buzz kill, thats a BONERKILL! a COCKBLOCK! I am so thrilled with myfirebird that i had made a decision, the next guitar i buy will be a jackson custom shop firebird (or hopefully an artist signature my own i mean...) so you mean to tell me there is no possibility of one?

There is NO possibility of one, hasn't been for years. And why do you keep talking about your Firebird? It's a Jackson neck on an unknown body. Get over it already.

[straycat]

[Jacksonguy666]

There is NO possibility of one, hasn't been for years. And why do you keep talking about your Firebird? It's a Jackson neck on an unknown body. Get over it already.

Big deal, its the closest thing, and until its proven exactly what it is, i will continue talking about it. I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

[Jacksonite]

there may be more to this than you think...

recent legal losses by FMIC, may actually have some positives...

The Supreme court has recently ruled that Body shapes and styles CANNOT be copywrighted.... headstocks can, but the body shape cannot.

im sure its not that cut and dry... but shinnannigans (sp?) may be soon afoot in the CS

[Newc]

The Supreme court has recently ruled that Body shapes and styles CANNOT be copywrighted.... headstocks can, but the body shape cannot.

Unfortunately the Supreme Court based that decision on the Strat and Les Paul and other shapes that have been around since the 50s (Tele, Fbird, V, Explorer, SG, etc) so that means the Warrior, Kelly, Star, Death Angel, Dominion, Jazz'R, Rhoads, King V, Disruptor, Roswell, Death Kelly, Death Warrior, War Angel, Warlock, Virgin, Stealth (BCR), Bich, VVV, Scarab, Sceptre, Dime, HollywoodZ, Cadillac, Schon, and a ton of other uniquely-identifiable bodies cannot be locked down by their designers and/or exclusive to their original manufacturing brand.

That's not a good way to go. I'll sacrifice Jackson not being able to make roundhorns and Explorers and Fbirds if it also means it's equally illegal for anyone else to make a Warrior, Rhoads, Kelly, and especially War Angel.

[Jacksonite]

yeah, I totally agree...

but, it is what it is.

I hope nobody EVER makes your war angel, if you dont want them too...

[Jacksons Shred]

If it's "illegal" to copy other designs, can someone seriously tell me how the fuck ESP is still in business?

[Newc]

Because ESP is based in Japan.

It is not directly against United States law for Fender to manufacture Gibson designs, nor is it against US law for Gibson to make Fender designs. Fender and Gibson have a "gentleman's agreement" regarding copying each other's designs whereby as long as one doesn't do it, the other won't flood the market with their wares at stupidly-cheap prices, thus negating the other's attempt to do business.

Ibenhad, ESPee, Agile, Caparison, Ran, Godin, and a host of other non-US companies can make whatever they want because they do not pose a serious threat to either Fender or Gibson. Imagine being able to buy a USA-made Gibson Les Paul Custom for the price of an LTD knockoff. That's where Gibson's power is.

[Jacksonguy666]

That's not a good way to go. I'll sacrifice Jackson not being able to make roundhorns and Explorers and Fbirds if it also means it's equally illegal for anyone else to make a Warrior, Rhoads, Kelly, and especially War Angel.

Thats a good point! Although i didn't know there were limitations on Custom Shop orders until now. I knnew you could be sued for a production line being copied i.e. Ibanez's explorers and v's but i thought the advantage to the custom shop was you could get w/e you want. Finding out now you can't buy one is like a kid finding out santa is fake, or a gu finding out either his girlfriend has fake boobs or is a guy! Haha i kid, but serisouly thats a major buzz kill...

[AK47]

Because ESP is based in Japan.

It is not directly against United States law for Fender to manufacture Gibson designs, nor is it against US law for Gibson to make Fender designs. Fender and Gibson have a "gentleman's agreement" regarding copying each other's designs whereby as long as one doesn't do it, the other won't flood the market with their wares at stupidly-cheap prices, thus negating the other's attempt to do business.

Ibenhad, ESPee, Agile, Caparison, Ran, Godin, and a host of other non-US companies can make whatever they want because they do not pose a serious threat to either Fender or Gibson. Imagine being able to buy a USA-made Gibson Les Paul Custom for the price of an LTD knockoff. That's where Gibson's power is.

ESP can offer original body and headstock shapes to its domestic market in Japan. In the USA they still have to modify the headstock and body shape so much to be in compliance. That is why the eclipse and viper have not only a different headstock shape but also a modified body shape.

Body shapes that are so old are considered public domain but headstock shapes fall under copyright protection in the USA. In Japan you can still order a ESP with strathead or Jackson point Head if you want.

[Jacksonite]

I really think you will see some things change..

Fender isnt going to offer a LesPaul, but I think there are going to be some things available from Custom Shops now that werent.

I HONESTLY do think this is going to be the case.. I am looking into it and will post what I am told

[Joe Stump]

Imagine being able to buy a USA-made Gibson Les Paul Custom for the price of an LTD knockoff. That's where Gibson's power is.

That my friend will never happen. Gibson would lose their "collector" base

[AK47]

I really think you will see some things change..

Fender isnt going to offer a LesPaul, but I think there are going to be some things available from Custom Shops now that werent.

I HONESTLY do think this is going to be the case.. I am looking into it and will post what I am told

Nick,

No BS I got a Firebird and a Explorer CS order ready to go if they say yes.

[Newc]

That my friend will never happen. Gibson would lose their "collector" base

Trust me. If it came down to it, and it was a case of survival, Gibson would drastically slash prices to stay in business, which would have the ripple effect of putting already low-priced competition in the grave. Collectors selling back and forth amongst themselves do not generate money for Gibson. New instrument sales does that. The Collector markets would first see a flood of new inventory, quickly followed by a crash in prices due to a market glut.

Once the competition was out of the way, Gibson would begin to raise prices, but you'd never again see a new LP for $3K, and the "pre-crash" LPs would still command a high price since Gibson would be using lesser woods to make the "fire sale" models (whether real or imagined).

[Joe Stump]

Trust me. If it came down to it, and it was a case of survival, Gibson would drastically slash prices to stay in business, which would have the ripple effect of putting already low-priced competition in the grave. Collectors selling back and forth amongst themselves do not generate money for Gibson. New instrument sales does that. The Collector markets would first see a flood of new inventory, quickly followed by a crash in prices due to a market glut.

Once the competition was out of the way, Gibson would begin to raise prices, but you'd never again see a new LP for $3K, and the "pre-crash" LPs would still command a high price since Gibson would be using lesser woods to make the "fire sale" models (whether real or imagined).

Sadly, I must concur with several of your points

However, when you devalue an iconic name with a 50+ year history and tradition, you destroy a carefully built up credibility based on actual customer trust and loyalty. With that, a little more of America has died

There is room for Gibson and Fender. There is room for Jackson/Charvel, Dean, Hamer, BC Rich etc.... Why? Because brand loyalty is strong in players. We also are not afraid to try other stuff out since many of us have multiple brands in the arsenal

Quality is paramount, not shape, the logo dictates that 90%+ of the time anyway. We identify shapes automatically with brands

If we choose to buy another brand offering a shape we want and top notch quality, that does not automatically mean we won't buy another Gibson/Fender product right?

If it ever went down like that and only one was left, I look at it this way

I miss the Pontiac Firebird but I can still buy one used