Gentlemen's Agreement Between FMIC & Gibson

[AK47]

There's about ten people in the world who like firebirds, and they're all on the internet complaining about FMIC policy. Go buy a Gibson Firebird, route it out for humbuckers and a Floyd and you're done.

One thing I look at is resale value and rarity of a guitar or amp. You never know when shit happens and you got to dump something quick.

When you start modding and compromising on what you want you not only take a hit on that ugly ass guitar you modded by routing it out all to hell but you still had a ugly guitar that anyone can buy to begin with.

For example I can get a 84 Charvel EVH for 8k today and resell it five years from now for easily over 10k or I can get a musikraft replica and take a hit on resale 5 years from now. Most people dont think about these things when buying gear but I do because I hate losing my ass on having to sell stuff if I decide I dont like it.

But that is my point to begin with is at most Jackson will sell 10 custom Firebirds in one year and Newc is making it sound like Jackson would just utterly destroy Gibsons customer base with such a huge volume of orders so that is why they need a "gentlemans agreement".

[Grandturk]

Gentleman's agreement or not, I can absolutely see Fender execs saying - "We don't do Gibson shapes, end of story." And that might make sense - they don't need to sell those guitars to do good business. Clearly, Jackson has not gone under after they stopped making "round horn V's" and explorers - in fact, I would say the brand has been tremendously strengthened since FMIC took over.

[john.w.lawson]

Man, pussy just seems like a better topic!!!

[AK47]

Gentleman's agreement or not, I can absolutely see Fender execs saying - "We don't do Gibson shapes, end of story." And that might make sense - they don't need to sell those guitars to do good business. Clearly, Jackson has not gone under after they stopped making "round horn V's" and explorers - in fact, I would say the brand has been tremendously strengthened since FMIC took over.

I think Charvel has been tremendously strengthend as a brand after the FMIC take over.

As for Jackson I think they went downhill. I know I am not the only person here that threw there hands in the air out of frustration and said they are not buying anymore NEW Jacksons because of the huge prices increases and custom shop restrictions. I know the new Jacksons are just not flying off the shelves like they used when they were an excellent value for the money a few years ago.

For Jackson to go under Fender would have to go under. The way it works with the FMIC buyout is they can have Jackson in house even though its not profitable it still stays and wont go anywhere because letting it go would cost more money in the eyes of the bean counters.

Have you bought any brand new USA Jacksons lately?

[Grandturk]

Have you bought any brand new USA Jacksons lately?

Technically yes, although I haven't taken delivery yet.

[AK47]

Technically yes, although I haven't taken delivery yet.

What did you order just curious? I am awaiting a white KV1t that I ordered from the CS but due to the price increase and restricted policies this will probably be my last order.

Dont get me wrong I love Jackson guitars I just dont like the way its been restricted to what FMIC lawyers let me have on my guitar.

[Grandturk]

What did you order just curious? I am awaiting a white KV1t that I ordered from the CS but due to the price increase and restricted policies this will probably be my last order.

An Adrian Smith. Not a custom job, obviously, but made buy those guys.

[mr426]

I am one of those 10 people who would order one if I could...In fact if they ever allow it again, I will order 2 right off the bat...I even have the specs down ready to go...I think they could do it if they wanted to. They would make some money, keep us happy and not even touch Gibson's bottom line.

[The Rossness]

Kramer is owned by Gibson and they make a strat shape...

So the restriction on Jackson CS orders are a bunch of BS if you ask me.

Kramer also makes a RR copy.

ad as for re-routing a gibby FB- if you really wanted to, you could get a GMW.

[Joe Stump]

Want to know why Gibson is so sucessful?

They don't sell imports under their Gibson brand name. When Dean, Fender, Hamer, Jackson and other companies did, I viewed it as greed and nothing more

Who would really want a Gibson made in Korea? No more then I would want a cheap import Jackson. I don't care how good it plays, it' still an import which in my eyes is just a cheap knockoff of the real deal

Mark my words, import versions are the downfall of any company that uses the same brand name as their USA product

Look how import prices have climbed, you can get a USA made for a few hundred more in many cases

Take that same import and trade it in and wonder why GC only offers you a couple hundred bucks IF you are lucky?

[AK47]

Kramer also makes a RR copy.

ad as for re-routing a gibby FB- if you really wanted to, you could get a GMW.

GMW resale sucks and ugly new headstock no thanks. I can order a pointy head ESP Firebird through my dealer in Japan that gets me my explorers but I will wait to see what happens with the Jackson CS.

[charvel750]

Charvel750 I think has CS statics from pre Fender years I think in 2001 there was something like 2 explorers made and 6 or 7 Firebirds. I hope he sees this so he can post the actual numbers.

Well, actually we only know how many "J" and "RR" serial numbers were issued then. Can't really tell which were Firebirds or Soloists, or whatever. Need the log books for that...anyone? I'm holding onto my Jackson Explorer (J6072) and Roundhorn Y2KV with Floyd (J6448) for obvious reasons...

[Newc]

Jackson isn't the one who signed the "Gentlemen's Agreement", FMIC is. As Jackson is an FMIC sub-brand, the agreement covers them.

No, CS orders for F-birds wouldn't skyrocket to the point of forcing a USA Select model be introduced, but Gibson doesn't care. They see their body shape being made by someone else and that's all they see, hence the agreement.

FMIC on the other hand is not as worried about Kramer. They understand who controls the Strat market. They're open to the competition and they know they dominate the vintage-spec traditional Strat market. To FMIC, Kramer and Charvel are competing for the rear-routed Floyded SuperStrat market.

Sub-brands competing against each other doesn't bother the parent companies as much. Sub-brands competing directly against the parent companies is where they see a problem, and I won't be surprised to see Hamer Standards and Vectors dropped, though as I understand it, those are all made overseas these days (I could be mistooken), so Gibson might not see them as a threat.

USA-made vs USA-made is one of the issues, and brand-recognition is another. Each brand wants to protect their body shapes regardless of the Supreme Court's blanket ruling.

However, you'll have to obtain a hard copy of the Agreement to fully understand each side's stance on the issue.


This has been addressed before, and I seem to recall McD stepping in to assert that most of what I've repeated here is indeed the case regarding said Agreement.

[VitaminG]

There's about ten people in the world who like firebirds, and they're all on the internet complaining about FMIC policy. Go buy a Gibson Firebird, route it out for humbuckers and a Floyd and you're done.

It's funny that there's such a ruckus over Jackson not making Firebirds. From most of the comments made here, even when they were available, nobody was ordering them. As someone else stated, that's why they appear so rarely for sale. Same with Explorers - how many are actually out there? I've seen a handful in the decade I've been on the JCF. But you take something away, everyone gets bent out of shape

[The Rossness]

It's funny that there's such a ruckus over Jackson not making Firebirds. From most of the comments made here, even when they were available, nobody was ordering them. As someone else stated, that's why they appear so rarely for sale. Same with Explorers - how many are actually out there? I've seen a handful in the decade I've been on the JCF. But you take something away, everyone gets bent out of shape

I'm not bent out of shape about it in the least. I was just commenting on the fact that it seems stupid to have such an agreement especially when it comes to CS axes.