Bridge/mid pickups to go with sustainiac

[patmac3]

Does anyone have a suggestion for passive pickups that work well together in the bridge/mid position of a DK2S dinky with a sustainiac in the neck? My stock pickups gotta go, too weak. I want something that sounds thick, but has some versatility (classic rock/old metal). Was thinking about a Tone Zone or a JB but have no idea what would compliment either in the mid position. Would appreciate any suggestions.

[Newc]

Middle pickups are generally toneless as the harmonic nodes at that point along the string are pretty much horrible.

My Sustainiac seemed a bit lower output than even a low-grade Duncan Designed single, and in no way could compete with something like a Hot Rails or Lil59 volume-wise.

Best bet for volume-matching is to get a very weak traditional-voiced RWRP single coil.

However, that also means it has to match up to a fairly weak bridge pickup, which will be louder simply because it's got 2 coils, so you're looking at a 59 or Jazz bridge.

With that combo, you're not going to do much Metal, old skool or not.


I'd say get a hot bridge and hot middle, and a volume/clean boost pedal for when you use the neck as a pickup.

[patmac3]

That sounds like a plan, I definitely don't want to sacrifice the heavy sound for the clean. To be more specific about the sound I am looking for, I play a lot of black sabbath and metallica so I love the low end chunk, but I also play a lot of dirty clean strat sounding music i.e. machine gun (I love the character Jimi gets with his cleans on that song) and pink floyd (david gilmour gets a very large sounding clean tone when you hear him live). I can get most of the effects I am looking for with my amp and a nice little boost with the sonic maximizer, although an eq might be a nice addition, so I am not worried about that. My guitar currently gives me the versatility, but sounds too thin and weak, a bit muddy.

Can I get that kind of versatility with that setup that you mentioned above and do you have any specific brand/model you like in that setup.

Another thing I read is that you can get a little more high end from your guitar by changing the value of the pot on the volume knob, if any one has tried this please feel free to chime in.

Thanks for the suggestions Newc, much appreciated.

[Jacksonguy666]

I actually have 2 dk2's now, and the duncan designeds NEED to go. I already have a jb in the bridge, and I dont care much about the middle, but i have an emg 85 in all my other guitars, and I REALLY love how that sounds. I go for the whole (zakk wylde type of shred tone) so what would be best for that warm neck sound? The hot rails? Cool Rail? Any thing else I don't know about? (I don't normally use single coils, if you can't tell )

[Vass]

Is there any way to stick a sustain driver in the mid position or do the fields from the bridge & the neck pups screw it up, or is the placement on the strings not centered enough?

For the reason Newc pointed out and others, the mid pickup is probably the one that most folks would be least likely to mind sacrificing. I'd think that using the mid for your sustain driver would be ideal.

It's such an obvious observation that I have to believe there is a major technical or performance challenge.

[toejam]

I actually have 2 dk2's now, and the duncan designeds NEED to go. I already have a jb in the bridge, and I dont care much about the middle, but i have an emg 85 in all my other guitars, and I REALLY love how that sounds. I go for the whole (zakk wylde type of shred tone) so what would be best for that warm neck sound? The hot rails? Cool Rail? Any thing else I don't know about? (I don't normally use single coils, if you can't tell )

Start your own thread. He's not talking about a DK2. He's talking about a DK2S model. S = Sustainiac driver. Look it up.

[patmac3]

Ye that be true Mr. Toejam. The sustainiac is an active pickup, and to be honest I am not completely sold on it either. I love the sustain and feedback you can get from it, but it seems a little too dull for my taste. I think I want to change the duncan design passives first and see where that gets me, but I may eventually go all passive...will cross that bridge later. I actually think there is an upgrade available for my sustainiac which improves the harmonic response so I may want to check out that option as well. First things first, I need to change the passive pickups so keep the suggestions coming. Looking for bridge/mid pickups that work with sustainiac. Not sure if changing mid will do anything special because I tend to use either neck or bridge alone...but I want to go ahead and change both. I may also change the volume pot and see if that gives me some enlightenment just because the dimarzio site says you can get a little more treble response by changing the resistance. Shit, I need a soldering iron!!

[Jacksonguy666]

Start your own thread. He's not talking about a DK2. He's talking about a DK2S model. S = Sustainiac driver. Look it up.

I know that. I have played one. But since were talking about pickups, someone could just like add on to a post, that they think "____" would be good, that we don't waste space and have a thread with like 4 comments.

[patmac3]

I know that. I have played one. But since were talking about pickups, someone could just like add on to a post, that they think "____" would be good, that we don't waste space and have a thread with like 4 comments.

It's all good!! But I don't think I can pair an EMG 85 with a sustainiac because they are both active. At least I have not heard of that but I could be wrong. Looking for passive pickup suggestions. I have read that a cool rails(mid) goes well with a JB (bridge) in my setup, but still looking for more suggestions. I am curious how much a real duncan jb (or any other pickup) will improve my sound as opposed to a duncan design jb imitation. I understand it is an improvement though.

[cornstar70]

I have a tone zone in the bridge of my poplar DK2 and it sounds pretty damn good. Plenty of output, warmth, and sustain.

[rjohnstone]

It's all good!! But I don't think I can pair an EMG 85 with a sustainiac because they are both active. At least I have not heard of that but I could be wrong. Looking for passive pickup suggestions. I have read that a cool rails(mid) goes well with a JB (bridge) in my setup, but still looking for more suggestions. I am curious how much a real duncan jb (or any other pickup) will improve my sound as opposed to a duncan design jb imitation. I understand it is an improvement though.

OK... first thing to clear up is the Sustaniac driver is not an active pickup.
If you want a sustainer in your guitar, you have to live with a shitty neck pickup.
It is designed to drive the sustainer first and be a guitar pickup second.

Yes, you can use EMG's with a sustainer.
It's takes some wiring skills, but it can and has been done before.

Here are the wiring diagrams for a DK2S.

Pre August 2007 models: ("Gain" control only)

http://www.sustainiac.com/dk-2s_rev4.pdf

Models made after August 2007: (This setup kicks ass because you can now control both "Drive" and "Gain" for the driver. The gain control is not installed by default, but you can easily add it via another 500k pot or a push/pull setup with the tone pot.)

http://www.sustainiac.com/dk-2s_rev5.pdf

[patmac3]

Wow, I thought I was the only one out there who thought the sustainiac sucked! I guess I assumed since it ran off a 9 volt that meant it was active so that is news to me. Good to know. Now you got me thinking I just need to replace all the pickups and be done with it. The sad thing about it is I have a cheep Yamaha Applause guitar my parents bought me when I was a teenager and my amp really comes to life when play that thing compared to the dk2s. I guess I expected better sound from jackson. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade it, but the pickups are lacking. Thanks for the schematic, I've been all over the internet looking for one so that is a big help. I still don't know if I want to go active with the EMG's, but I will have to check them out.

As far as the tone zone is concerned, I love the way it sounded on the website, but I have yet to hear it. It sounds pretty thick though and is definitely near the top of the list. Not sure how it would work with my DK2s, Still trying to identify. (serial#967778 in case anybody knows where I can identify because it wasn't on the Jackson webpage, probably made in Japan).

Thanks for the help. All suggestions are welcome.

[Newc]

Vass - A Sustainiac is designed specifically to be as close to the neck as possible, meaning it has to go in the neck. On the humbucker-sized driver, the neckward coil is the driver. It may interfere with the fields of other pickups, which is why it comes with a small metal tab that can be inserted next tot he driver between it and the middle pickup. The strings are simply too loose at the middle position to support the driver - the power would have to be amplified so much that it would pull the strings out of whack, and disrupt the other pickups.
The best sustainer design would be mounted into the fretboard after the last fret, and have a shaped field that was aimed directly at the strings rather than being football shaped. That would keep it from disturbing the neck pickup.


p-mac - All DK2Ss were made in Japan.
I'm not a DiMarzio fan but I do like the ToneZone over the Duncan JB. The TZ can cop a JB sound (no balls, the choked-potential sound) if you back it off the strings a bit, but it can get more balls and more punch if you keep it pretty close to the strings, whereas a JB can't.

And you can get more highs from a humbucker by using a 1Meg volume pot, though it's not that the pot adds highs, it lets more pass through. If the pickup doesn't have enough highs, it won't matter if you're using a 1M or 500K pot. Most people prefer a 250K volume with a JB to control the highs, saying it's too shrill with a 500K. I think it sucks anyway, so I haven't bothered testing that myself.



J-guy - Almost all single-spaced pickups will sound more stratty than humbuckery IMO. I've had Hot Rails in the neck, and while it definitely has more balls and beef than a regular single (especially the Duncan Designed stuff), it still has that Strat sound. If you're good with that, get one. Haven't tried a Cool Rails, but I'm assuming it's just a louder single - halfway between a Hot Rail and a regular single.

You might also look into a Lil59 or Lil Screamin Demon. A JBJr might be good as well, but the one I had in the bridge of a 1990 Warrior had very high output - like a Distortion. It had more drive than the Duncan Custom Shop DistortionJr I ordered.

Speaking of that, you could get a Duncan Custom Shop CustomJr or JazzJr. I ordered those two as well and the CustomJr is very warm. It makes a great middle pickup. The JazzJr is a bit low-volume, but it works pretty well as a middle pickup when paired with a neck and bridge humbucker.

[scarylynch]

Phil Collen uses a sustainer system in the PC1 models and if my memory serves me correctly, he uses a Dimarzio Super 3 in the bridge and a HS-2 in the middle.

Just a thought from a newbie..

[patmac3]

Hey Newc, you seem to know quite a bit, the JB immatation I have does have that choked off sound so I can see what your saying, but I am curious what you like in the bridge. Just telling me what you don't like for a pickup is not really giving me much to work with. I'm a pretty open minded dude, what do you say?