Ran guitars

[Lorne]

some people are not willing to wait a gazillion years to get what they want. and i'm also one of those who dont want to pay 3000€ for a guitar.

Still not getting the Justification for stealing someone else's work

What you have just said,is similar to what a guy could say who robs a bank

"I wanted to buy a house,but didn't want to work 25 years in order to do it"

If you don't want to wait "A gazillion years" or pay 3000 Euros,then either go secondhand,or buy a different make/shape guitar that is readily available

I bet all you guys would be bitching if you were in signed bands and saw your CD's being downlaoded in thier thousands on a file sharing site,but,hey,giving your "Justification",those guys should be entitled to do it,because,why should they pay £15 for your work,when if they were in Greece (Pretty cheap for music,so I heard),they would be paying around £5 for the exact same album

[javert]

I don't know who 'all those guys" you are referring to are, but I hope you're not referring to me (if you are, you did not read what I wrote in this thread). I was only in this discussion because I found certain aspects interesting and that the whole 'every thing is a copy' comment to be bullshit, which I have elaborated on earlier in the thread.

Also, I think we have to make a distinction between making derivative products (which Jackson itself does with the Soloist, King V, etc.) and blatant copies of existing models, which Ran did but appears not to do anymore; at least not more so than what appears to be standard in the world of musical instrument production (from what I can tell from what they have on their homepage--maybe they still do it but don't brag about it).

And, again, I do make my living off IPR.

[Davey]

Still not getting the Justification for stealing someone else's work

i do agree with that.

What you have just said,is similar to what a guy could say who robs a bank
"I wanted to buy a house,but didn't want to work 25 years in order to do it"

well, kind of, but you're being a bit silly. i dont really approve of what RAN is doing .. if they paid royalties it would be a different matter entirely

If you don't want to wait "A gazillion years" or pay 3000 Euros,then either go secondhand,or buy a different make/shape guitar that is readily available

well, if you can get me exactly what i want 2nd hand, i'll buy it in an instant. there's a reason i dont buy production guitars anymore. nobody makes what i want, so i have to go custom.. not having any money at all helps though :P

I bet all you guys would be bitching if you were in signed bands and saw your CD's being downloaded in their thousands on a file sharing site,but,hey,giving your "Justification",those guys should be entitled to do it,because,why should they pay £15 for your work,when if they were in Greece (Pretty cheap for music,so I heard),they would be paying around £5 for the exact same album

nah, it's not really like that..
it's more a case of: buying the exact same album by a different artist (who play cover songs) for cheaper, but they dont pay royalties to do so.

this situation is VERY complicated, because it's on the knife edge between ok and wrong. if you read my other replies you'd know that by now.
i'm saying Ran are good cos they offer a very similar product for less... but not good, cos they do it pretty much illegally, cos they exploit the fact US copyrights dont really work over here

[javert]

if you read my other replies you'd know that by now.

See, this is what caused my last reply... It's annoying when people don't actually read what has been written but rather make generalizations and state something that's already been said.

[javert]

And proof by false analogy is also annoying

[Pointy]

What's annoying is people who feel smart because they think they discovered a loophole in intellectual property law and ethics, if they understand the concept of "intellectual property" at all.

[Lorne]

Actually Javert,I did read everything in this thread,If I said something here,that you thought applied to you,especially when I didn't quote you,then that is something for your mind to decipher,I'm not clairvoyant

[Lorne]

well, if you can get me exactly what i want 2nd hand, i'll buy it in an instant. there's a reason i dont buy production guitars anymore. nobody makes what i want, so i have to go custom.. not having any money at all helps though :P

Firstly,I also agree with a lot of what you said too Davey,just clipped the qoute to make it easier to read

As for finding what you want secondhand,I have done that a LOT for people in the BCR world,it's not really that hard,BUT,does take a LOT of time

For example,I have found 2 of the 7 only made Bich doubleneck basses,1 of the 10 Seagull basses,an Explorer bass,2 USA Ironbird basses,a Thru neck Explorer guitar,a PMS Bich etc etc

I have also recovered 4 stolen BCRs in the last 2 or 3 years
2 Mocks,a guitar and bass,stolen in different parts of the USA in 1987,both revoered in 2007,a Warlock bass and a Seagull II guitar.

Basically what I'm saying is just about anything can be found,eventually

[javert]

Actually Javert,I did read everything in this thread,If I said something here,that you thought applied to you,especially when I didn't quote you,then that is something for your mind to decipher,I'm not clairvoyant

Hehe, no problem then. And point well taken! I keep telling my girlfriend that I'm not clairvoyant when she's upset over something I should have done (or done differently), but she didn't tell me :ROTF:

[javert]

In hindsight, I think I was worried that what I wrote could be misunderstood. I didn't want it to sound like I thought it was okay to produce copy products.

[Lorne]

Hehe, no problem then. And point well taken! I keep telling my girlfriend that I'm not clairvoyant when she's upset over something I should have done (or done differently), but she didn't tell me :ROTF:

You're going out with my wife?:think:

[javert]

You're going out with my wife?:think:

Hehe, yeah, that appears to be a global phenomenon!

[toejam]

You're going out with my wife?:think:

Is that my ex-wife? :ROTF:

[Davey]

Firstly,I also agree with a lot of what you said too Davey,just clipped the qoute to make it easier to read

As for finding what you want secondhand,I have done that a LOT for people in the BCR world,it's not really that hard,BUT,does take a LOT of time

welllll..... yeah .. kind of. i was lucky i found a DK2M special edition (the one with the red ghost flames) which is exactly what i wanted.. the other guitars i want are one of the new charvel teles.. which i'm getting one day.. the rest is not in production in any shape or form or ever was (maybe a single custom piece)

[ozzuk1]

http://nealmoser.com/store/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=4175

Interesting that he's made a mummy graphic guitar hope he had Kirks permsision first, as he wont even let ESP make them...thats copyright infringment no?

I also hope he had Fenders permission to do the Tele shape and BCR's to make a Bich copy...

He also has a Virgin copy but I think it's just diofferent enough...