ESP Horizon FR-II vs Jackson SL2H

[Nagash02]

I have started this thread on the ESP forum, but as I want an unbiased review of both guitars, I have to post it here too. Here is my exact post :

I usually tend to like weird guitar shapes like offset Vs or Explorer-alikes, but this time I'm simply seeking a high-end superstrat guitar. After looking around, I ended up caught between the following two : the ESP Horizon FR-II and the Jackson SL2H.

Common features : Neck-through, dual humbuckers, 24 frets, floyd rose. Exactly what I want (plus the trans red finish ^^)

Main differences :
ESP has Mahogany body and EMGs. Retail price : around 2100 $
Jackson has Alder body and Seymour Duncan pickups. Retail price : 2750 $

So if anyone has tried out BOTH guitars, give me an advice please ! One of my close friends owns the ESP so I know it quite well, but I have no access to the Jackson so I can't tell if it is even better. And please DON'T suggest other manufacturers (especially not Ibanez) cause I'm only interested in these two guitars.

So, as I said I already asked my ESP fellows, but I ould like the Jackson fanboys to give me an informative input on the subject too !

[micha]

offset V... is that how you call a rhoads on the ESP forum?

[DonP]

Aren't Horizon's an archtop as well?

and you can order an SL2H-MAH in mahogany if that's important to you.

I have a 1988 Horizon with the Jackson headstock and it kicks ass. I put in a Custom Custom and a coil tap push/pull Tone. I hate the smurf headstock of newer ESPees. I pretty much shy away from newer ESP stuff.

I have a Bengal SL2H. Simply Awesome. The only change I made was a push/pull tone to split the JB.

I will tell you this. Jackson was the original. ESP is the copy of the original. ESP started out making Kramers, then when Kramer went belly up, they went into business for themselves making Jackson copies. These old copies were great. Not sure of there current stuff.

The only serious comparison between the two I can say is the neck profiles. The Jackson feels better but only slightly. More of a flatter C profile, the ESP more of a U.

One more thing if you are a newbie and don't know much - wood sourcing / quality. Why dor you think Gibson Historic, Fender Custom shops etc. cost so much? Better wood. Jackson has the backing of the Fender purchasing department for getting the best wood.

An ESP made from mahogany sounds great, but not so great if it's from dense toneless wood.

As always, it's best to play the guitar in person before buying.

Last thing - resale value. Take a look at how Jacksons hold their value and how well ESP's hold their value. Which will be the better investment over the long haul?

[Nagash02]

I call them offset V's cause that's what they are, that's all ^^. Nothing to do with whether I'm talking with ESP dudes or not. Jackson has the Rhoads, ESP has the SV and the Alexi Laiho sig, Ibanez also makes some offset Vs...

Then, DON'T come to me with bullshit such as "Jackson was the original", cause I don't give a fuck about this. My ESP SV Standard comes from ESP copying the Jackson RR24, and I'm really sorry to Jackson freaks but the SV is just BETTER. I want the best one, regardless of it's prestige.

Next, I'm not planning on reselling my guitars. Never.

At the moment, i'm leaning towards the Jackson (pickups, neck profile, woods, quality control, etc) but the ESP still has nice things for its defense (real archtop, quilt maple top, narrower neck...). In fact, I do believe the Jackson is better, but Jacksons are so fucking overpriced that I want to make sure that it's really worth it. I'm stuck in Europe, I can get the Horizon for 1500 bucks but the Soloist costs 2500 -__-'.

Basically I'm deciding if the differences between bothg guitars DO make these 1000 bucks. Anyway thanks for contributing ^^

[ekalb09]

I've played both (but not owned) and I pine for the soloists, but of course being here probably makes that opinion biased. I like flat tops though, which is a big deal to me for some reason. If I went with an ESP it would be the standard M series because I love the maple fretboard and flat top, in fact it's one of my favorite bolt ons.

I don't think you can go wrong with either guitar, the reason I'm into the soloist is simply the neck profile. That's what got my eye onto Jacksons a long time ago.

[neilli]

ESP has a narrower nut width...

[neilli]

offset V... is that how you call a rhoads on the ESP forum?

Well what else can they call them? They can't call it a Rhoads because it's a mutant version.

[Nagash02]

Hey... we're not talking Rhoads here please, and besides Jackson called the Rhoads "offset V shaped guitars" themselves, so I didn't create the word... And stop making your superior guys just because you prefer Jackson to ESP. Unbiased, as I said.

The biggest issue between both guitars is indeed the neck. The ESP has a narrower but thicker round neck, and the Jackson Soloist probably has the same profile than a Dinky, which means wider but flatter. I live 10 minutes away from a music shop who have a USA Dinky, is the neck profile supposed to be the same on a Soloist ? Cause in that case, I already know I prefer this one to the ESP.

[micha]

hey, I was just joking around. I'm sorry I'm the only one who consideres shit like this funny here.

AFAIK the dinkys neck should be a bit thinner compared to a soloists one. at least based on what I've heard and what the spec sheets on the allglorious jackson-homepage say...

[RR05xx]

Bullcrap aside, I will give you a perspective. First, I would note that for whatever reason, ESP cost more in the States that Jacksons do (or did the last time I checked).

Now on to the point, I was in a cover band a few years ago and I played a 2001-2 Black SL-2H and an 2000-1 ESP Hanneman model (basically the same general soloist style guitar with the ESP "access cut" in the lower horn for up fret access, EMGs instead of SDs, an ESP boost and a kalher instead of the floyd) interchangable. When I got out of that band and my musical tastes changed, neither got played and I decided one had to go (I wanted to keep one neckthu - I play bolt ons exclusively now).

I decided to keep the Jackson. I felt that the Jackson quality was higher and I also felt that on the whole, the ESP, which was supposed to be a 25.5 scaled guitar with jumbo frets did not not "feel" quit right compared to the jackson. It just felt more gibson scaled with smaller, taller frets. (This may mean if you have small hands, go ESP).

Mind you this was a if you only could keep one senerio. If I thought I could justify keeping two more guitars that do not get played at they time, I probably would have (and probably should have).

That said, I paid around $1K for each at the time. For $2500, I am going to buy an old SD s-head Charvel any day of the week without even thinking about it. YMMV.

[laurens]

I think that a comparison between the ESP MII and the SL2H would be better if you look at their specs, or not? I have had both and I must say that both companies make quality products. In the end, I stick to Jackson because I like their neck profile more. Little details are better too (except that the placement of the volume knob is annyoing with the SL2H, but if I remember correctly the ESP had that too). If money is an issue go with ESP.

ps if you keep up that tone in your reaction regarding the short history lesson about Jackson, then please buy ESP and stay at the ESP board.

[Grim]

Call me a fanboy if you want, but seeing as I have a Horizon I prefer my Jacksons. That is why I keep my Horizon in B standard/Dropped-B.

[lynchfan6]

I can't help much here, but I have a Jackson USA SL2H and an ESP m-II deluxe. I can't imagine parting with either one at this time, and I must say that
they "feel " much different. The Jackson is newer, and has never been gigged yet. I can say that I've had the ESP for 12 years, and it was my main gig
machine back when I had a band and was playing out constantly--and I never had to repair anything,,,,output jack or switches,,,nothing. And this was about
8 hours of gigging a weekend, nearly every weekend for a few years straight. Besides some fret wear, the guitar is still in totally awesome condition,,,but I do baby
and pamper my gear. So I think the quality of both is just great, and it all comes down to feel and preference. I'd suggest trying both , if possible, before buying.
Or, get one of each Seriously,,,the Jackson neck is somehow more "sleek" like a sports car, the ESP feels a little more "squarish" and has a bit narrower fretwire
But both play amazing....and I'm mostly an Ibanez Jem player.

[wilkinsi]

I have tried both guitars, and I prefer the SL2H.

[6string40]

I own neither, but have played both. As many have stated above, the neck profile will be one of the biggest differences. So, compare your friend's ESP and the dinky you are able to access locally. Again, the dinky is probably a little thinner than the SL2H, but you should get an idea of general profile. Then, ask yourself, do I like a thinner or thicker neck? Do I prefer the U shape or the C shape? Which is more comfortable to you?

Also as stated above, you can get the SL2H in mahogany if you prefer the darker toned woods to a mid-to-bright tone wood such as alder. Again, what type of tone do you prefer?

Finally, the biggest thing I think that has been overlooked thus far are the pickups! Do you prefer active or passive? EMGs are going to be a bit more sterile sounding than the Duncans, IMO. I used to play strictly EMGs, then got tired of the way they reacted (or did not react) to my playing, so I went to all Dimarzios as I never really found a Duncan I liked (other than a '59 in the neck)...however, I've been recently leaning toward Duncans as I have finally found a bridge pickup I like (the SH-5 Custom). Again, it's a matter of personal taste of tone, so which do you prefer?

I think all in all, you're getting a great guitar either way. To me, those are the biggest differences between the two you are looking at, so weigh the pros/cons between neck profile, tone wood and pickups and I think you'll make the right decision. If cost is a concern (which I didn't get the impression it really was) then weigh that in as well.

I think you're going to get bias from both sites...especially since it seems as though ESP guys and Jackson guys have never really gotten along very well! I'm not a fanboy of either and not biased either way...I actually joined this site to gain more insight on Charvels. I have owned an ESP Eclipse that I really liked, but got rid of it due to the EMGs. I currently own a Jackson Dominion that I absolutely love (by far my favorite Jackson I've ever played).

Oh...and the price difference, I believe, has a lot to do because of the finish choices. The ESP comes in ONE finish, which is cheaper to mass produce. The Jackson comes in 28 finishes and thus costs more to produce overall as they produce less of each.

Hope I was at least of some assistance!