Thinking about a Gibson SG (and questions)

[PowerTube]

Over the weekend, I picked up an Epiphone SG Special from a pawn shop. It was $149.00 with a really nice hardshell case (SKG, most likely). Believe it or not, this little SOB is nice! The stock pickups are much hotter than I would have thought, too. The only thing it doesn't have that I want is trapezoid inlays. It has the dots.

My first electric was a vague SG copy from Sears. It's sitting here in the room with me as I type this, and to this day I have no clue who it's made by. But I always loved the feel of it.

Now the questions for SG owners....

I owned a Les Paul once with original PAF pups and they sounded sterile to me. Are the modern PAF types still like that or are they hotter now?

Does the Gibson SG feel more solid than the Epiphone version to you?

What's your impression of the overall quality?

[Newc]

Never stooped to the Epiphoney level myself, but I've had a couple of Norlin-era SGs (which some would argue are no better than current Epis, but to which I counter with "Ace played a Norlin" ).

I do hear good things about current Epis, but then this is from the same people who used to shit on Norlin-era Gibsons until they were priced out of reach, so there ya go.

Pickups are as fickle as players. Some sound good in certain guitars, just as some guitars (even "great" ones) can sound like shit all by themselves. I'd bet if you put a different set of Gibby PAFs in that LP, they'd sound different. Then again it depends on what you're after tonally. Personally I like Gibson pickups in Gibson guitars, but not in anything else, and don't really get along with a Gibson that has non-Gibson pickups. Maybe because when I have one, I'm trying to play stuff that known Gibson-users play (Zeppelin, Sabbath, Speedwagon, etc), and who thus didn't use DiMarzios or Duncans or EMGs.

But a PAF is a PAF - they're designed to emulate that old 50's tone and output level. Most PAF-ish pickups will offer some sort of variation on the design such as a different magnet (the Duncan Custom is a PAF-design with a ceramic magnet, the 59 is a PAF-design with an Alnico 5, whereas I belive the original Gibson PAF used an Alnico 2) or feature mismatched coils (DiMarzios trademark design, which would be the same as taking a neck humbucker and bridge humbucker, each wound slightly differently, and swapping the outer coils between them so the outer bridge coil is the inner neck coil, and vice-versa).


I'd say try the current stock Gibson pickups (in an SG it's probably going to be the 498T in the bridge), then swap it for a Duncan Custom or 59 and see what's what.

[PowerTube]

Thanks for the info, Newc. When I had the LP Custom, I was used to a hot DiMarzio I had in another guitar at the time so the PAF just didn't cut it. But I'm wondering if some of the current ones with PAF covers are actually hot. What I might do is lug my combo down to Guitar Center and plug into it so I'll have a basis for reference.

It's a mental thing; when I see a PAF cover, I just assume "non-hot."

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Yeah, I wouldn't look for Gibson pickups to be hot, aside from maybe the Dirty Fingers, that's the only one I'm aware of. Then again, I'm not really that hip to Gibson pickups. But typically they're more of a low/medium output as Newc said.

Then again, with today's high gain amps they probably have plenty of gain for most stuff outside of all out thrash, but if you're plugging into a JCM800 you will probably be disappointed.

[Grandturk]

496R/500T pickups from Gibson are pretty hot - definately in the "Duncan Distortion range" of hot. Sound great in an SG.

Here's what I've found with SGs - you've got to go really hot or really mellow with your pickups - the middle of the road pickups - like a JB - don't work well with their enhanced mid-frequencies in the SG.

I don't know shit about Epiphones, but I've had my Gibson SG for 18 years and tried a bunch of pickups through it. Best I've found - so far - Duncan 59 neck, Screamin' Demon bridge.

As far as "PAF covers" - that's all irrelevant IMO - covers have nothing to do with the sound or output of a pickup and have a negligible sonic impact. You can put a cover on just about any type of pickup - hot, vintage, whatever.

[PowerTube]

So how about this? Would the PAF's in a Gibson SG be as hot as the uncovered humbuckers in the Epiphone SG Special?

[Grandturk]

So - first of all - there's two products out there you can call "PAF's" - the humbuckers that Gibson made between 1957 and 1962 and Dimarzio PAFs. That's it.

Gibson has several different current pickup offerings - Burstbuckers, 57 Classics and the "49x" series of pickups plus signature pickups and Dirty Fingers. There's a whole range of "output" available across their pickup line.

Gibson SG Standards come with - 490R & 498T
Gibson SG Specials come with - 490R & 490T

You can get either pickup with or without covers - and covers don't affect the output.

For sake of arguement, assume that any stock pickup in an Epiphone is shit and should be replaced if you're going to keep the guitar. Quality replacement options include Gibson, Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio pickups.

[PowerTube]

So - first of all - there's two products out there you can call "PAF's" - the humbuckers that Gibson made between 1957 and 1962 and Dimarzio PAFs. That's it.

Gibson has several different current pickup offerings - Burstbuckers, 57 Classics and the "49x" series of pickups plus signature pickups and Dirty Fingers. There's a whole range of "output" available across their pickup line.

Gibson SG Standards come with - 490R & 498T
Gibson SG Specials come with - 490R & 490T

You can get either pickup with or without covers - and covers don't affect the output.

For sake of arguement, assume that any stock pickup in an Epiphone is shit and should be replaced if you're going to keep the guitar. Quality replacement options include Gibson, Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio pickups.

Thanks. I had assumed that they use those covers to keep the "Gibson look" going on. I just need to go and try them out.

[DonP]

I've had my SG Standard since 1998. The 490R/498T sound fabulous to me. Tony Iommi has his custom pickup, but whenever I see him on VH1 or something, it looks like the stock pickups (the Iommi pick doesn't have pole pieces showing so it's easy to ID). What I'm getting at is that my bone stock SG nails early Black Sabbath tones. I love everything about the guitar except for the 50s neck. I'm a thin shredder neck kinda guy, but the tone is so awesome I put up with the fatter neck.

BTW, the 498T is a 13.5K Alnico V magnet, so it's similar in respects to an SD Custom 5, but most people on the (biased) SD forum seem to like the 498T better.

I did have a 1979 SG from the Norlin era. Very nice SG! The only reason I sold it (one of the only guitars I sold in the past 20 years) was that I needed cash moving into a new house, and I flipped it for double the $625 I paid for it. I'm sure Angus Young played one of these, it had AC/DC tone for days. Those Norlin ones were oddballs that had unusual features - thin nut (1 5/8"). Schaller "harmonica" bridge, epoxy potted Velvet Brick pickups (on my 1979 at least).

Never touched an Epiphone so I can't help you there, sorry.

[Grandturk]

70's SG's also had a completely different body shape - less contours - more plank.

[DonP]

70's SG's also had a completely different body shape - less contours - more plank.

The early 70's were especially ugly. By 1979 they were getting back to normal.