buying a gibson les paul need advice

[MetalHeadMat]

Gibson's CS guitars are probably hit or miss, too!

True, but that could go for any CS, Jackson included.

[Devotee]

Possibly!

Torment, if you've never owned a Gibson, how can you be a fair judge of one? Everything i wrote in my post was based on my own experience with owning a Les Paul - i.e.: none. However, it was based on simple facts that i've talked about with Gibson owners first hand, but to believe for one second that an Epiphone is better than a Gibson is just ludicrous. As for the Gibson Custom Shop QC being a hit or miss affair, do you think Jackson hasn't had their fair share of fuckups? Ask AK47 on here about a certain white King V for instance...

[Sephiroth]

Possibly!

Torment, if you've never owned a Gibson, how can you be a fair judge of one? Everything i wrote in my post was based on my own experience with owning a Les Paul - i.e.: none. However, it was based on simple facts that i've talked about with Gibson owners first hand, but to believe for one second that an Epiphone is better than a Gibson is just ludicrous. As for the Gibson Custom Shop QC being a hit or miss affair, do you think Jackson hasn't had their fair share of fuckups? Ask AK47 on here about a certain white King V for instance...

Epis can be decent if you replace EVERY LAST THING on them with Gibson parts, but by then you just spent as much as you could have gotten a Gibson for.

My biggest grievance with Gibson is my same grievance with Jackson: too many price increases, too few options and features. I saw a nice Explorer with a Floyd in it not too long ago, it was rear-routed for a nice clean face with no plastic covering 1/3 of it, it had a slim fast neck on it that I really liked, and as luck would have it, I didn't like the finish and it's only available in that one finish (antique white). Meanwhile Hamer makes some very nice trans finish explorers that I would love to see Gibson make..................

I have probably played 100 GIbsons over the past two decades and seen God knows how many more, and have never ever even once seen any build flaws I hear about on the internet, so I don't mean to call anyone a liar, but I can only say I've never seen a build quality issue on a Gibson.

[Sephiroth]

double-post again dammit.........

[Torment Leaves Scars]

Possibly!

Torment, if you've never owned a Gibson, how can you be a fair judge of one? Everything i wrote in my post was based on my own experience with owning a Les Paul - i.e.: none. However, it was based on simple facts that i've talked about with Gibson owners first hand, but to believe for one second that an Epiphone is better than a Gibson is just ludicrous. As for the Gibson Custom Shop QC being a hit or miss affair, do you think Jackson hasn't had their fair share of fuckups? Ask AK47 on here about a certain white King V for instance...

I'm sure with all companies, there are hits and misses. Shit happens, BUT when I continuously see it from a company when I go into music stores, what's the excuse?

A Gibson could be the most reliable guitar in the world, but when I see bullshit flaws on $2500 guitars, what's the impression I'm going to get of that company? These guitars shouldn't even be leaving the factory with some of these visual flaws.

As for the guy saying I'm jealous I've never owned a "real Gibson," take my word for it, he couldn't be further from the mark. I don't own a Gibson because I don't trust their quality, not because I hate them. I'd love to own an Explorer, because they're just awesome looking guitars, and they arguably make the coolest Vs, BUT, sorry, I'm not spending $2000 on a guitar with visual flaws that are nothing more than the makings of a lack of pride in someone's work and/or shoddy quality control. When I find an Explorer or LP without ridiculous flaws there are no excuses for, I'll sit down and play them, but when I do see flaws, I don't have any interest in spending time with that particular instrument.

As a side note, I didn't like a damned thing about Jackson until I purchased my JS a few weeks ago. I'd never played a USA Select Jackson until about 1-2 years ago, and I was expecting great things, just based on things I'd heard from others. My experience was different.

6 months ago, I ran into my 2nd USA Select Jackson, this one being a RR model. It was the same story, I didn't like it. Talk about disappointment! So, did I hate Jackson? No, but I was disappointed that I didn't like them, because I really wanted to.

How'd I wind up with a Jackson? The same way I nearly wound up with a (Epiphone) Les Paul. I was looking to trade in some pos guitar for a slight upgrade that would at least be fun to play, and wouldn't collect dust. I had my heart set on this Epi Standard I saw, but the store didn't take trades. They directed me to a store who did, and that store also had one (used) for $325. It was a big store, and one I hadn't been in, so after playing the LP, I told the employee, "Hold the thought on this one, I'm gonna look around. I've never been here."

While browsing, I stumbled across the Jackson line and spotted a Kelly. I'd always liked the Kelly, but hadn't ever seen one, so I decided to play it, and liked it more than the LP. I just connected with it. After returning it to the shelf, I spotted the Warrior, and hadn't ever seen one of them, either, so I played it, and liked it that much more than the Kelly. A stronger connection was made with the Warrior than the Epiphone, so I bought the Warrior.

I hadn't even been in the market for a Jackson. I'd never met one I'd liked playing, but I figured I'd give them a chance again, and that's what happened. I wasn't a Jackson hater because I didn't connect with the guitars, or think they were shit because I didn't connect with them. I struck it up to a case of great guitars that I simply didn't connect with.

FWIW, now I'm in the market for a USA Select Warrior. Given the number of Jacksons I've seen over the past few weeks, I'm pretty sure I have a better chance of finding one without inexcusable flaws like splotchy paint on $2000+ guitars.

I'm done on this subject. On that note, all of you can enjoy hugging Gibson's nuts, and blinded by their "good" name, because we all know that I must be an absolute liar, and I've really never come by a Gibson with shoddy quality. Who knows, maybe they'll release the "Gibson Nut-Hugger" Special Edition, dedicated to all their blind, die-hard fans, because they all know Gibson does no wrong.

The funniest things about this entire thread are that I've been called a Gibson hater, yet, I was all set on buying a product of one of their subsidiaries, and even stated I'd like to own a GIBSON Explorer, but the icing on the cake is that all you Gibson fanboys are sitting here trying to dispute that I've ever seen a Gibson with a flaw.

But, wait, let me post another thing, which obviously, you've FAILED to see in my previous post. WHAT YOU JUST QUOTED ME AS SAYING IS THAT I SAID EPIPHONES ARE BETTER THAN GIBSONS. Did I? How'bout if you go back and re-read my post, and then post back here and let us all know what I REALLY said? Sound good?

[Devotee]

*sigh* OK, here goes...

As a side note, I didn't like a damned thing about Jackson until I purchased my JS a few weeks ago. I'd never played a USA Select Jackson until about 1-2 years ago, and I was expecting great things, just based on things I'd heard from others. My experience was different.

6 months ago, I ran into my 2nd USA Select Jackson, this one being a RR model. It was the same story, I didn't like it. Talk about disappointment! So, did I hate Jackson? No, but I was disappointed that I didn't like them, because I really wanted to.

How'd I wind up with a Jackson? The same way I nearly wound up with a (Epiphone) Les Paul. I was looking to trade in some pos guitar for a slight upgrade that would at least be fun to play, and wouldn't collect dust. I had my heart set on this Epi Standard I saw, but the store didn't take trades. They directed me to a store who did, and that store also had one (used) for $325. It was a big store, and one I hadn't been in, so after playing the LP, I told the employee, "Hold the thought on this one, I'm gonna look around. I've never been here."

While browsing, I stumbled across the Jackson line and spotted a Kelly. I'd always liked the Kelly, but hadn't ever seen one, so I decided to play it, and liked it more than the LP. I just connected with it. After returning it to the shelf, I spotted the Warrior, and hadn't ever seen one of them, either, so I played it, and liked it that much more than the Kelly. A stronger connection was made with the Warrior than the Epiphone, so I bought the Warrior.

I hadn't even been in the market for a Jackson. I'd never met one I'd liked playing, but I figured I'd give them a chance again, and that's what happened. I wasn't a Jackson hater because I didn't connect with the guitars, or think they were shit because I didn't connect with them. I struck it up to a case of great guitars that I simply didn't connect with.

FWIW, now I'm in the market for a USA Select Warrior. Given the number of Jacksons I've seen over the past few weeks, I'm pretty sure I have a better chance of finding one without inexcusable flaws like splotchy paint on $2000+ guitars.

I'm done on this subject. On that note, all of you can enjoy hugging Gibson's nuts, and blinded by their "good" name, because we all know that I must be an absolute liar, and I've really never come by a Gibson with shoddy quality. Who knows, maybe they'll release the "Gibson Nut-Hugger" Special Edition, dedicated to all their blind, die-hard fans, because they all know Gibson does no wrong.

The funniest things about this entire thread are that I've been called a Gibson hater, yet, I was all set on buying a product of one of their subsidiaries, and even stated I'd like to own a GIBSON Explorer, but the icing on the cake is that all you Gibson fanboys are sitting here trying to dispute that I've ever seen a Gibson with a flaw.

But, wait, let me post another thing, which obviously, you've FAILED to see in my previous post. WHAT YOU JUST QUOTED ME AS SAYING IS THAT I SAID EPIPHONES ARE BETTER THAN GIBSONS. Did I? How'bout if you go back and re-read my post, and then post back here and let us all know what I REALLY said? Sound good?

I didn't FAIL to see anything dude. I never posted that you SAID you Epis are better than Gibsons:

...but to believe for one second that an Epiphone is better than a Gibson is just ludicrous.

[Sephiroth]

I would be a liar if I were to say I've never been tempted to buy an Epiphone; the Zakk Wylde bullseye in particular. That antique white with bullseye finish is just so damn sexy, but I don't want EMG's because I play more than CHUG-A-CHUG-CORE genres of music, I don't want to have to pay a higher price to pay for pups that I don't want and would have to immediately replace, and that raw neck...........well I've owned a couple of raw-neck guitars in the past, and here in south Texas with bouts of extreme humidity followed by bouts of extreme dryness.......it didn't end well for either guitar.


There's no way in hell I'd even remotely consider the $3500+ Gibson custom version with those features I don't even want on a guitar just because I like it's finish.

[Sephiroth]

I take your double facepalm and raise you one epic facepalm

[Devotee]

[Trussrod]

I've had an LP Custom for a long time. It's a great guitar in its own way and I have no intention of selling it, but IMO the Ebony FB reduces the amount of treble too much--at least on this axe. I've played Standards with a Rosewood FB that sound great. Definitely try each guitar before you commit to buying one.

[DonP]

I've had an LP Custom for a long time. It's a great guitar in its own way and I have no intention of selling it, but IMO the Ebony FB reduces the amount of treble too much--at least on this axe. I've played Standards with a Rosewood FB that sound great. Definitely try each guitar before you commit to buying one.

The original customs and the '57 Custom reissues are made of solid mahogany with no maple top. If yours is one of these that may be why it has less treble, from the lack of a maple top.

Most people say ebony brightens the tone and rosewood warms it. This is the first time I've heard someone say Ebony kills the treble, but if it is killing the treble, wouldn't this happen to any guitar with an ebony fretboard?

[straycat]

IMO markthemuscleshark is a pussy hows that for name calling?
All of my Gibsons sound great no complaints out of me.Please don't bash a product just because YOU don't like them.
My Charvels and Jacksons sound great too just a different type of guitar with different attributes.
And to say an EPI is just as good as a Gibson is patently stupid.
I'll play any brand as long as it plays well and sounds great yes even the cheap ones.
Plus by dragging out your argument you look stupid not intelligent.
My 2 cents.

[axmann]

I own several Gibsons. Old and slightly newer. The quality and tone is flawless. With the advent of internet buying, and lets face it (to all my "older" counterparts) unleashes a zillion guitars to be had. I have a very hard time buying an un-seen and un-played by myself guitar. I do it, but still hesitate. I know that guitars from all manufacturer's can get out and not be quite right. There is a black Gibson SG Standard sitting in a Guitar Center an hour from my house with a terrible, I mean terrible paint job. I could not believe my eyes. Shit happens. In the same place was a slightly used natural colored Explorer.Not very old. It was flawless and played like a damn dream. So much I may go back to the "hey kids lets beat some expensive guitars up" mall and check it out again. It happens, I try not to pass too much judgement on brands . I pass it on what I have in front of me. By the way, that SG was the first real botch job from Gibson I have seen in ages, other than some poor factory set-ups. There were two Fender USA Tele's there that had the frets hanging outside the fretboard so far you could grate cheese with them. Dissapointing, yes.... but I know I could find a Tele I would like (if I liked Tele's). I don't get too biased on brands and issues.Yes I want quality, I want players, I want stuff that works for me period. Hell I have a Hamer here I bought for crushed aluminum can money and it plays Never in my Life as good or better sounding than any Les Paul Jr. Leslie West ever played. I personally have never seen a Charvel or G&L that didn't look quality. Whatever. Give me another $300 Jap Charvel, and in a favorite quote from a guy on here I admire "I'll rock that sucker"

[85 San Dimas]

I wouldn't buy a "New" anything. Let someone else put the GC managers kids through college. IMHO find a 1986-1995 Gibson set neck and have at it. THose are after the Norlin era and prior to the GC era. 20 years from now those are going to be the ones everyone wants. THey're higher quality than the current stuff and you don't hav eto pay a mint for it. A 91 or 92 LP Std for around 13 is obtainable but it'll be blue or black most likely. Just my opinion. Not a big Gibson lover, but I will say that nothing else sounds like one.

For a similar guitar at a cheaper price I'd find me a 1980-81-82 Hamer Sunburst Special and piocket the difference. I have a couple and they're killer.


The problem is that the sinking economy actually drove Gibson prices up a little on the used market becasue speculators and music store owners were less willing to let their marquee brand used guitars go cheap. It was the only thing they had they could make money on becasue it was harder to sell the marginal stuff.

[axmann]

Its getting tought to find a clean 79-82 Hamer Sunburst and the prices on them are getting retarded. Maybe the Hamer Specials(same basic shape) but I rarely see them here in Wisconsin . I'd take another little red one if I could find it for a reasonable price. They are REALLY great guitars. I'm with you on that.