buying a gibson les paul need advice

[SausageofPower]

This is me playing Devil's Advocate. I don't necessarily agree with everything Mark said, but he has a few points.

If these are such crappy guitars, why do most people want them?
If they are such crappy guitars, why do people keep buying them?

The answer, in my opinion, is brand recognition. People know what a Les Paul is, even if they aren't guitarists. I remember talking about how Les Paul had died and people knew who he was and the guitar that carries his namesake, and they've never played in their lives. Plus, players want to play what the people who inspired them play. Am I going to play Led Zeppelin with my Model 4 slung down to my knees? I could, but it'd feel horribly wrong. That's just me though.

How can Gibson charge so much for a crappy product?

Honestly? The market is horrible. In the past ten years or so, I've watched things spin out of control on the local level. Competition has been completely obliterated and what used to be an open market is seemingly now a monopoly with Guitar Center holding the strings at the B&M level. Even the local "Ma and Pop" stores, I've discovered, were bought up by Guitar Center. Those that are truly independent no longer carry anything in terms of big brands in guitars.

So, I blame that partially. I've watched everything go up in price though, an Epiphone costs 2x what it did back in 2004-2005 nearly. It's ridiculous across the board, not to mention the QC has become extremely hit or miss from everything I've read and seen.

Surely all of these famous guitarist who play Les Pauls could find some other axe to get the job done? I see a few who switched to Stratocasters (Clapton), yet most who played Les Pauls had there hayday with the Les Paul, and got...boring...after the switch.

I wouldn't say switching guitars is what made those guitarists boring. Hell, a lot of guitarists have a limited lifespan and just run out of fire. Even those who kicked ass with a Les Paul in their hands and still wield one aren't necessarily still dynamic. Then you get into those who play "Les Pauls" but in all actuality are playing copies of some sort.

Surely if these guitars are this bad, no one should want them and they should be going for chump change. So I'd say your two cents don't hold a lot of water.

I don't agree with shitting on Les Pauls wholesale, but I can understand people giving them second thoughts these days. Price-to-quality has suffered a lot in the past decade, and in all honesty someone like me who is in a similar position to the OP might find themselves exploring the alternatives. Personally, an entry-level Gibson Les Paul (or high-end Epiphone Les Paul) couldn't inspire the faith in me that it used to and I set my sights on a PRS SE Singlecut. It's not exactly the same, but I feel like I'm getting more for my money there.

[Devotee]

If these are such crappy guitars, why do most people want them?

Why do people go nuts over Justin Bieber? Why do Bullet For My Valentine have Jackson endorsements and sell more records than my band?

If they are such crappy guitars, why do people keep buying them?

Because the Les Paul is, along with the Strat, THE definitive electric guitar. It's an icon that symbolises more than what it is - a guitar. Because of this fact they are also one of the few (vintage) guitars that appreciate in value as time passes.

How can Gibson charge so much for a crappy product?

See above.

Like all Gibson products, Les Pauls are waaay overpriced. The construction isn't necessarily bad at all, it's a traditional construction method that hasn't changed in aeons. But it has its weaknesses, the most notorious being the aforementioned headstock/neck area which is easily broken because of the lack of a volute.

Also, from what i've heard, Gibson's QC hasn't been all that great for years and it's unsurprising since they're spending so much money investing in retarded products like the Firebird X and Robot guitars or whatever.

As much as i would love a Les Paul - for many young (read: broke ) guitarists like me, an LP Custom is the 'holy grail' of guitars - i think there are better alternatives out there for less cash and arguably better quality and options. A Gibson LP with a Floyd Rose (like the Axcess) would cost an arm, leg and ass while getting an ESP Eclipse with that option as standard is much more affordable.

Of course if you have the money for a '69 Black Beauty that's another matter altogether.

[petez0r]

just buy what feels/sounds good to you. i own a les paul among 8 different other brands, and it is a unique sounding.. quality instrument...just like the others.

[DonP]

What you people fail to realize and can't come to grips with is that the Gibson Les Paul is an awesome guitar and that's why it continues to do well. If it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I love my Charvels and Jacksons. For Metal the definitely kick ass. But they aren't going to replace any of my Les Pauls.

[Hellbat]

Why do people go nuts over Justin Bieber? Why do Bullet For My Valentine have Jackson endorsements and sell more records than my band?

Same answer behind both questions. Both of these artists have large amounts of money behind them dedicated to putting them up in front of consumer's eyes as often as possible to move and market products. If you were signed to a major label and had over 75 tour dates lined up at actual concert venues in the next year with other signed touring bands, I'm pretty sure Jackson would take a good look at you. Twenty shows a year at the corner brew pub, not so much...

As far as my advice on Les Pauls, here is my step by step guide to purchasing any guitar.

1. View guitar - does it look cool up on the wall and make you want to play it? any obvious defects or setup issues?
2. Play guitar unplugged. Good set up? How do chords ring out/sustain? Is it acoustically resonant? Any obvious need for fretwork such as fretting out on bends anywhere up and down the neck?
3. Plug the guitar in and play it for as long as they'll let you. I recommend at least 15 minutes sitting and 15 minutes standing. Thats 3-5 entire songs in each position. Don't spend 5 minutes thinking "this plays awesome" and then buy the thing and get it home and find out that after 20 minutes your arm or shoulder starts to cramp up. Make sure you check it out clean and distorted. Try all the pickup positions. Ask yourself honestly if you think you are getting useful tones out of it.

If you get a buzzer at any one of those steps then move on to the next one. The only exception would be if everything comes together except you don't like certain aspects of the tone plugged in. Then you have to ask yourself "Could this be resolved by an electronics change?" If you think it can then factor the price of that in to the guitar as well. If you think that it isn't an electronics issue, walk away until the next one grabs your attention on the wall.

If you are getting a Les Paul just to "Have a Les Paul" you are approaching it wrong. Take time, be patient, and get the RIGHT Les Paul for you. Even if you have to throw it on layaway or something. If you settle for one you are just going to regret it and flip it.

[ulijdavid]

I think everyone has made valid points. I have to agree with DonP on one point - If you get the right Les Paul the sound is something only a Les Paul can get.

Gibson quality is hit or miss, the prices are crazy, and the playability at the neck joint sucks. But.......in the end I could live with all of that if the SOUND was there.

[wilkinsi]

Don't buy a Gibson. Buy a Jackson.

[DonP]

Don't buy a Gibson. Buy a Jackson.

Why not buy both?

[J_A / 540s]

Sigh, where to begin...

Almost everything you mentioned were your personal opinions... except your facts which were completely wrong lol No offense intended but for all ya know youre missing alot of LP info.

"What's not opinion is the fact that all Les Pauls are the same. Mahogany neck, mahogany body, maple top, rosewood fretboard. What if I want a Walnut top? What if I want a maple neck? Too bad. Lastly, there's the outrageous prices."

They made maple neck Les Pauls for decades.. Theres LP's in countless configurations to suit just about anyone who wants one.

I'll agree with ya on the prices though.

[Sephiroth]

Studios = maple cap

Faded = no maple cap and produce a deader sound because of it. You'll need 500k pots to give it a bit more brightness and maybe even better pups.

[charvelguy]

I wouldn't buy a mail order studio if it were me. The density can vary from year to year, guitar to guitar as can the 'niceness' factor. The faded series tends to remind me of a more expensive Firebrand. (from the 80's) While there are some cool firebrand axes out there that still get an increasing dollar resale, you still should get a nice used one that you fell for from playing it and it seemed right. Negotiate for another 50 to get a decent Gibby case instead of a gig bag if that is what you have to work with.
Studio's, (not faded) depending on their cleanness have been priced from 650-1000 used depending on where you go (local craiglist or MGR) I haven't shopped recently though but I bought one last year.

[clifffclaven]

Sigh, where to begin...

LMFAO. I dont even know where to begin.

You have no FUCKING clue what youre talking about. But whatever makes you happy. LOL.

[MarkTheMuscleShark]

What do you mean I don't know what I'm talking about? Please, be so kind as to enlighten about my erroneous ways.

[kramer]

Same answer behind both questions. Both of these artists have large amounts of money behind them dedicated to putting them up in front of consumer's eyes as often as possible to move and market products. If you were signed to a major label and had over 75 tour dates lined up at actual concert venues in the next year with other signed touring bands, I'm pretty sure Jackson would take a good look at you. Twenty shows a year at the corner brew pub, not so much...

As far as my advice on Les Pauls, here is my step by step guide to purchasing any guitar.

1. View guitar - does it look cool up on the wall and make you want to play it? any obvious defects or setup issues?
2. Play guitar unplugged. Good set up? How do chords ring out/sustain? Is it acoustically resonant? Any obvious need for fretwork such as fretting out on bends anywhere up and down the neck?
3. Plug the guitar in and play it for as long as they'll let you. I recommend at least 15 minutes sitting and 15 minutes standing. Thats 3-5 entire songs in each position. Don't spend 5 minutes thinking "this plays awesome" and then buy the thing and get it home and find out that after 20 minutes your arm or shoulder starts to cramp up. Make sure you check it out clean and distorted. Try all the pickup positions. Ask yourself honestly if you think you are getting useful tones out of it.

If you get a buzzer at any one of those steps then move on to the next one. The only exception would be if everything comes together except you don't like certain aspects of the tone plugged in. Then you have to ask yourself "Could this be resolved by an electronics change?" If you think it can then factor the price of that in to the guitar as well. If you think that it isn't an electronics issue, walk away until the next one grabs your attention on the wall.

If you are getting a Les Paul just to "Have a Les Paul" you are approaching it wrong. Take time, be patient, and get the RIGHT Les Paul for you. Even if you have to throw it on layaway or something. If you settle for one you are just going to regret it and flip it.

+1

[clifffclaven]

What do you mean I don't know what I'm talking about? Please, be so kind as to enlighten about my erroneous ways.

All your "facts' were either personal opinion or wrong.