The Gibson TP-6 fine tuning tailpiece...

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Thoughts?

I bought one of these recently for an SG I picked up. I remember a buddy had one when I was a young man and I liked it, and I read a lot of reviews that were glowing (and one or two that were not, but weren't really specific) so I order one. Pricy! It's like $100, I'm expecting a well-designed heavy piece of equipment.

I take it off of the cardboard backing/shrink wrap package and observe the design. It looks like it cost about $5 to make. Cheap. The fine tuners are not even peened over on the end to keep them from unscrewing all the way. The holders for the ball ends swing on a "hinge" that is just a piece of wire driven through all 6 tuners, and with no tension on them they will "fall down" and rest on the face of the guitar. Why there is nothing across the bottom to prevent this, I can't really say, but due to the design it has to be very low to get a good break angle across the saddle anyway so it only drops down about 1 mm.

So, I burr the threads at the end to keep the fine tuners from unscrewing all the way (still retaining the full range of motion) and I put it on the studs and I go to hook the ball end of the string in there.

I use D'addarios, no idea why that would matter, but the ball ends fit very sloppily into the retainer. The slot in the retainer is probably 1.2 mm wide so the string has plenty of room to move around, but the ball end gets kind of cockeyed in there, and you have to hold it in place.

So imagine this, you are stringing up your Les Paul or whatever, you have your string through the retainer on the TP-6 and you have the other end through the tuner, you start to tighten it up, and it spins a little in the tailpiece and gets jammed in sideways, which is obviously going to cause teh string to break, so you're trying to maintain tension on both ends while you string it up.

What a fucking pain in the ass. This thing is a horrible piece of overpriced shit. So, why are there so many people saying "Oh, I have one on every Gibson I have, I love it!" if it's this much of a pain to deal with? :think:

[Newc]

Could be the balls, but AFAIK those are pretty much standardized. I see no reason why they wouldn't be.

As for the unit, I had the Schaller version a while back (the one the replaces all-in-one units like the LP Jr) and it was made with the same swiveling cups you describe. I never did get to use it as I didn't have a guitar that could (I thought it would mount on the stopbar posts, but that put the intonation out), but it felt rather substantial, although the cups did seem cheap.

[toejam]

I put one on my LP awhile ago... I like it. The main reason I did it? Because the original stopbar tailpiece wouldn't be high up in the air. I like my tailpieces down on the body, and the TP6 remedied this. Though, I recently put the TP6 on my Jackson Mark Morton model and went back to the original tail for the LP, but now I just top-wrap the strings so it can sit on the body.

Never really had a problem with the ball ends of the strings sticking in there; though, they do tend to turn a little like you mentioned.

[toejam]

As for the unit, I had the Schaller version a while back (the one the replaces all-in-one units like the LP Jr) and it was made with the same swiveling cups you describe. I never did get to use it as I didn't have a guitar that could (I thought it would mount on the stopbar posts, but that put the intonation out), but it felt rather substantial, although the cups did seem cheap.

That would be the 456 "all-in-one" version. I had the regular Schaller version (similar looking to the Gibson TP6) like they used on the Kevin Bond RR model, but I could never get it to fit on any guitar I owned, either.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I could see the ball-ends moving further into the end piece as I tuned/stretched; it just seems to me to be another way for the guitar to go out of tune. Plus it seems like it would cause the strings to break at the ball ends... And pulling on the "wrong" side of the saddle... I don't know, there's a lot I don't like about the design from an engineering standpoint.

I decided I'm going to just return it and put a regular TonePros locking tailpiece on there (more just so it doesn't fall off when you remove the strings than for the locking aspect) and some locking 18:1 Grovers on there. I have those tuners on my other Gibby and there is NO need for fine tuners, the regular tuners are already fine tuners.

Hopefully GC will take it back and at the worst hit me with an open-box 15% restocking fee... I'd rather pay $17 to be rid of it than eat $100 or use it. And at worst I improved it by making the fine tuners not fall out.

[Newc]

I'm actually sad to hear that the TP-6 sucks, as I was kinda thinking of getting one for my stopbarred NASL. Of course I'd also want a Floyd nut

[toejam]

I still like mine. Maybe I should get one for my Hamer...

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Ah, you know I am a picky son of a bitch...

I guess if I had paid $40 for it I might keep it and give it more of a chance but I was immediately kind of taken aback by the cheapish feel after I took it out of the package. I expected a lot more for $100! It even has a big hollow part on the bottom between the stud slots. And from the unscientific "hold one in each hand" test, the stock tailpiece is actually heavier.

[toejam]

Hmmm, I don't remember them going for that much. I got mine probably in 2004 or so and thought it only went for maybe $60, but I could be mistaken.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Yep! I found people online from the last, I don't know, couple of years saying they paid like $45! This is after I'd shopped around and Gibson lists MSRP as $198, and Guitar Denter has it for like $105.

Hey, you know, what do you expect from a company that charges $30 for a "historically accurate" rhythm/treble switch label.

[toejam]

I was thinking I paid somewhere between $40 and $60. I did get the Schaller version before that and couldn't use it, so I just went for the genuine TP6, and I think I bought it from Musician's Friend.

[DonP]

MAJNH,

Thanks for taking one for the team!

I've thought off and on about getting one, but now I know better.

I often see these selling used for $25 - $40 and now I know why they are so cheap.

[MetalMedal II]

I always wondered about these too. Are these the same units found on the Kevin Bond Rhoads?

[toejam]

I always wondered about these too. Are these the same units found on the Kevin Bond Rhoads?

No, that's the Schaller version.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

MAJNH,

Thanks for taking one for the team!

I've thought off and on about getting one, but now I know better.

I often see these selling used for $25 - $40 and now I know why they are so cheap.

Yeah, it's not all that, that's for sure. I can see how some people might like not having to poke the string through the tailpiece and might like the fine tuners if the tuners on the guitar are quick but to me part of the appeal of the Gibson stop tail/tune-o-matic is the simplicity and ease of use. I just like the Tone Pros stuff because you can tighten it down to where the bridge won't fall off when you forget it's on there and turn the guitar upside down.

I have a set of the 18:1 tuners already on one guitar and they are sweet so I think that is going to be the good setup for me - locking bridge and tail and super slow locking tuners. I don't care if it takes 5 turns on the peg to get one wind because I only need 3/4 of a wind anyway.