Non mint 1976 Les Paul Custom..... Am I an idiot?

[pro-fusion]

The quality control in the Norlin era was spotty, but if you find one of the good ones, they are fantastic.

[roodyrocker]

There is some objectivity about Norlin-era Les Pauls, in that were built with some features which don't belong on a top instrument. For example, the mahogany body pancake instead of a single piece, or the ill-placed neck volute: a good idea in theory, but the fact that it was poorly executed actually makes for a weaker neck.

Generally speaking also, many of them are very heavy, in the 10-11lbs range. Tonally this means that they tend to be less resonant and "airy" for lack of a better word, but the advantage is that usually they sustain very well, with fewer structural dead spots, as cross resonancies between neck and body tend to occur at frequencies above the instrument's range. So, no doubt that original 50's Les Pauls are better instruments, and so are modern Les Pauls. But the Norlin-era LP's are still quality instruments, with their own tonal merits if that's what you like, and 600 bucks for a LP custom is a good price.

Pretty much everything you listed above is a myth about the Norlin era guitars. No doubt they were different from the 50's era Les Pauls but that doesn't mean inferior. There isn't much objectivity in it really, its pretty much subjective and in fact somewhat biased. First myth is that the pancake body doesn't belong on a top of the line instrument. It actually is a pretty labor involved process doing this so some argue it adds cost. No one has proven any ill effects on tone because of it either. The other thing about it is that pancake bodies were not used through all the Norlin years. they stopped at some point in 1976. So you have a choice of finding a Norlin era LP with or without. Next, the volute is not badly executed on them. Its above the 1st fret so it shouldn't interfere with anything. It tried to address a weakness of the originals but the purists don't like it simply because it wasn't on those original old guitars. Again, not all Norlins have it. Some have it some don;t depending on what year LP you buy I think they went away at some point around 1981-1882. As for the weight issue, I have weighed my own 74 LPC but only after adding the brass parts to do a Randy Rhoads conversion on it. With the added brass it is 10.5 lb. Nothing I'd consider too unusual. In contrast, I have a newer (Non-Norlin era) Midnight Manhattan Blue LP that is heavy at 12.6 lb! Whether Norlins are heavier in general I don't know and don't care. The Gibson purists that are into that sort of thing will argue over a couple ounces! Also, I don't think heavier weight automatically means more sustain and lighter means airier tone. There are plenty of examples of each that defy that. The Gibson purists want lighter guitars because they were told the general weight range that most 50's guitars fell in so they assumed thats the best. I personally prefer to have a bit more weight to my LP's not because of tone or sustain but simply that they feel better to me than a super light LP. Just personal preference. I've never owned a 50's LP and I'm sure they're fine instruments but they are also well known to vary greatly from each other. This applies to pickups, necks, etc... quality control wasn't all what people think it really was back then either. Anyway, there are a few threads in the Norlin subsection on the MyLesPaul forum that debunk many of these myths.

All the iconic rock was played on a Norlin L.P. think of it that way.
If you like how it plays buy it I have never had a bad Norlin if that helps, some of the newer ones I have had some duds.

True, there are tons of iconic players and songs all done with Norlin era Les Pauls. At the top of that list for me would be Randy Rhoads with his 74 LPC. Its also equally a myth that the current production ones are duds. I'm sure there are a few but I have a few newer LP's as well and they have been fantastic. There are good and bad from every era. Thing is, the way prices have gone up on the 50's LP's I don't think you'll be seeing anyone admit that their $150,000 Lp is actually a dud

The quality control in the Norlin era was spotty, but if you find one of the good ones, they are fantastic.

I don't think it was spotty. They did of course ramp up production many times over during the 70's as sompared to the 50's. That is perhaps why some people think quality slipped. Also remember that some people consider the mere fact that they used volutes or pancake bodies a slip a quality. Although that is a myth as I stated above.

[horns666]

I heard that people were stoned in the LP Norlin era. That would make sense..I wonder if they rubbed their balls on them while assembling them. I would..major mojo magic in that ritual!

Sex Magic..it works Sex is the most energy humans and other things create. There is also other magic energy like when sneezing..peeing ior taking a huge dump. Energy is energy. You musy harness it at that momnet and direct it to whatever void you must fulfill. Not just once but constantly. It works. I've killed enemies, cured loved ones, and can do pinch harms like nobody's business...these are facts!

Any Les Paul allows me to unleash all my sexual energy into pinch harmonics that would make Zakk Wylde's balls blue. These are facts!

[asix]

if you like it have it and dont worry about what is is. Will you play it or will it just sit in the case? 1300 doesn't sound like a lot. Sell it in the uk and get pounds sterling for it. do you have any pics?

[triplehold]

Sounds cool. I have passed on a lot if wine red LP Customs cause they just don't get me like black or creme does. If I recall one of the guitar players in April Wine rocked a mean wine red Custom way back when. Hard to sell red ones too. Talk the seller down a few hundred.

[Rupe]

Pretty much everything you listed above is a myth about the Norlin era guitars. No doubt they were different from the 50's era Les Pauls but that doesn't mean inferior. There isn't much objectivity in it really, its pretty much subjective and in fact somewhat biased. First myth is that the pancake body doesn't belong on a top of the line instrument. It actually is a pretty labor involved process doing this so some argue it adds cost. No one has proven any ill effects on tone because of it either. The other thing about it is that pancake bodies were not used through all the Norlin years. they stopped at some point in 1976. So you have a choice of finding a Norlin era LP with or without. Next, the volute is not badly executed on them. Its above the 1st fret so it shouldn't interfere with anything. It tried to address a weakness of the originals but the purists don't like it simply because it wasn't on those original old guitars. Again, not all Norlins have it. Some have it some don;t depending on what year LP you buy I think they went away at some point around 1981-1882. As for the weight issue, I have weighed my own 74 LPC but only after adding the brass parts to do a Randy Rhoads conversion on it. With the added brass it is 10.5 lb. Nothing I'd consider too unusual. In contrast, I have a newer (Non-Norlin era) Midnight Manhattan Blue LP that is heavy at 12.6 lb! Whether Norlins are heavier in general I don't know and don't care. The Gibson purists that are into that sort of thing will argue over a couple ounces! Also, I don't think heavier weight automatically means more sustain and lighter means airier tone. There are plenty of examples of each that defy that. The Gibson purists want lighter guitars because they were told the general weight range that most 50's guitars fell in so they assumed thats the best. I personally prefer to have a bit more weight to my LP's not because of tone or sustain but simply that they feel better to me than a super light LP. Just personal preference. I've never owned a 50's LP and I'm sure they're fine instruments but they are also well known to vary greatly from each other. This applies to pickups, necks, etc... quality control wasn't all what people think it really was back then either. Anyway, there are a few threads in the Norlin subsection on the MyLesPaul forum that debunk many of these myths.




True, there are tons of iconic players and songs all done with Norlin era Les Pauls. At the top of that list for me would be Randy Rhoads with his 74 LPC. Its also equally a myth that the current production ones are duds. I'm sure there are a few but I have a few newer LP's as well and they have been fantastic. There are good and bad from every era. Thing is, the way prices have gone up on the 50's LP's I don't think you'll be seeing anyone admit that their $150,000 Lp is actually a dud



I don't think it was spotty. They did of course ramp up production many times over during the 70's as sompared to the 50's. That is perhaps why some people think quality slipped. Also remember that some people consider the mere fact that they used volutes or pancake bodies a slip a quality. Although that is a myth as I stated above.

Good post...the only discrepancy from my experience is the "spotty quality" comment which I hold as a truth (across all eras but especially the Norlin years). As a former dealer, I've bought and sold dozens of Norlin era Les Pauls and have seen far too many with twisted necks, horrible resonance, poor neck angles, etc to say that they weren't spotty. That said, there are plenty of great ones as well...in fact my all-time favorite Les Paul is a '76 Custom that I bought to flip 20+ years ago and still have.
I think Les Pauls moreso than any other model need to be played before purchased...they vary so greatly across all eras that to buy one without giving it a test drive is a serious gamble.

[clifffclaven]

Good post...the only discrepancy from my experience is the "spotty quality" comment which I hold as a truth (across all eras but especially the Norlin years). As a former dealer, I've bought and sold dozens of Norlin era Les Pauls and have seen far too many with twisted necks, horrible resonance, poor neck angles, etc to say that they weren't spotty. That said, there are plenty of great ones as well...in fact my all-time favorite Les Paul is a '76 Custom that I bought to flip 20+ years ago and still have.
I think Les Pauls moreso than any other model need to be played before purchased...they vary so greatly across all eras that to buy one without giving it a test drive is a serious gamble.

Yep, this.

My 78 standard was my first good guitar. Bought in 85 for $400. I still have it. The original frets are so worn it has a 15" radius now, but still plays effortlessly. It also weighs 12lbs even! Ill never sell it. That being said, Ive played hundreds of LPs, and the norlin ones (to me, anyway) were more hit or miss, at least up until recently. Recently, ive played more bad than good ones, at least after 09 or so. $1300 is a steal, even for a B stock. And yes, that means a blemish somewhere. If it was something else, it would be stamped "second" on the headstock.

[j2379]

Dont know much about Gibsons but i was told the pan cake body was due to availablity of hondoran mahogany at the time....era. kind of like now trying to get big chunks of Koa or brazilian rosewood, its out there but not enough to make production guitars with it.

[roodyrocker]

Gibson does a lot of things that seemingly make no sense to anyone else. They also have plenty of exceptions to their rules, and their documentation from the Norlin era is known to be pretty spotty. Having some modern era LP's as well as some Norlins myself, I still say the quality was not much different in any of those eras. There is a lot of myth and misinformation out there about these guitars. The best source of info on Norlin LP's I can think of is the Norlin subsection on the MyLesPaulForum. If you want to find out more info on Norlins as well as all their querks, check there.