Short-Scale Super Strat Comparison

[xenophobe]

That's the thing though, you're not likely to get a blank that is completely uniform and consistent. Each growth ring has a more dense spot and a softer spot and being a product of biological growth, there will be natural inconsistencies so each blank as it's cut will be unique and individual. DonP said his Gibsons have good mahogany and other guitars have bad mahogany and he can hear it. But what he's hearing is more a combination of aged pickup magnet degauss and aged drying of the wood along with the tonal qualities of the build style than the actual wood used itself. That's what I'm saying. Sure, he's talking about vintage tone and the wood is most likely old-growth that you don't get anymore, but scrap the guitar and build it into a different body and build style and it will sound very different.

[ginsambo]

Yeah I think it's a combination of set neck vs bolt on vs neck thru, piece of wood but the biggest factor seems to be the age of the thing.

Nothing modern will sound good anyway - global warming - the climate is fucked up.

[ulijdavid]

I believe I need to clarify some points directed at the responses to my initial post. I guess my first statement may be taken as a contradiction. I stated that I could not probably tell the tonal difference between the different mahoganies. BUT....with my experiences holding multiple species of mahogany I could feel the weight differences - so I could tell the differences by holding them.
As far as Honduran Mahogany being "True" or "genuine" mahogany, that is true. BUT...."true" or "Genuine" mahogany differentiates Central American Mahoganies from the other mahoganies located elsewhere. So, just because something states "True" or "Genuine" mahogany does not mean it is Honduran - it is of Central American origin. Nit picking? Not if I have a customer that specs it. I have purchased many board feet of various mahoganies to back up my claims. Someone who has owned hundreds of guitars would have a pretty good feel for mahogany, but unless you know exactly what you purchased you do not know which mahogany the guitar is made of. I don't think many manufacturers besides Gibson states "Honduran" mahogany. I have yet to see manufacturers state anything besides "Mahogany".
And when I stated I only use Honduran Mahogany in order to stack variables in my favor, it is because I am yet to have a customer say "I am looking for the creamy tone of mid 90's ESP". As much as everyone hates to admit it, a 59' Les Paul is one of the most sought after tones. I am not going to steer a customer towards a $2.50 board foot piece of basswood in my hopes of recreating the Les Paul tone.
I also believe I stated that regardless of any of the woods involved you will never know the magic tone of the guitar until it is finished.
In the end I think we all understand no wood, pickups, hardware, etc. guarantees excellent tone.

[toejam]

I don't think many manufacturers besides Gibson states "Honduran" mahogany. I have yet to see manufacturers state anything besides "Mahogany".

Carvin states that "Genuine Mahogany" is from Honduras. http://www.carvinguitars.com/colorandwoodguide/

[xenophobe]

I believe I need to clarify some points directed at the responses to my initial post.

I responded to your post, but I was addressing several statements, sorry I didn't quote a bit more properly.

BUT....with my experiences holding multiple species of mahogany I could feel the weight differences - so I could tell the differences by holding them.

So, which sounds better, heavier or lighter?

As much as everyone hates to admit it, a 59' Les Paul is one of the most sought after tones.

Of which the '59 PAF pickup is a major part of, which people have paid hundreds, if not thousands for. Nobody denies that LPs have a distinct sound. It's part of the distinct shape and build that helps define that sound. But they don't sound the same as they did when they were brand new and everyone who loves a '59 LP would know. The tone on them changed as the magnets and wood aged after they were built.

I also believe I stated that regardless of any of the woods involved you will never know the magic tone of the guitar until it is finished.
In the end I think we all understand no wood, pickups, hardware, etc. guarantees excellent tone.

Yup.

Mahogany is my favorite tone wood. One of the nicest sounding mahogany guitars I've ever owned is my BC Rich Stealth made in Korea. Even with EMGs, it has a thick mahogany tone that is just awesome. I assume they use cheaper Asian mahogany since the guitar is really inexpensive compared to US builds. The build quality of the guitar is phenomenal and it sounds great. Does it sound like an LP? Of course not. I like LP tone, I just hate the overall design. It doesn't work for me.

[Flatpicker]

As much as everyone hates to admit it, a 59' Les Paul is one of the most sought after tones..

Not that I want to get into a pissing contest, but there's plenty of non-tonal reasons that the 59 LP was used back during the 60's.

The first one and the main one was that at the time LP's were just used guitars. They were cheap and most of our tonal baseline is coming from guys who were just starting out and the LP was what they could afford used.
Remember that the LP was so poorly received that they were discontinued and replaced with the SG which was closer to the Strat.

The LP tone **now** is what people are looking for because they are looking to emulate the sounds they heard on their favorite songs which were played by broke ass musicians who played what they could afford in the beginning.
Not saying the LP's aren't good, but it's all relative.

[ginsambo]

What I don't get is that you all arguing about tone woods and yet the consensus on here is that floyd vs hardtail or TOM bridge tone is irrelevant. You can't play Angus Young on a Charvel Pro Mod. Well you can, but it sounds better on something with a fixed bridge.

I did some research on Mahogany and it seems that like Rosewood, it has basically become a generic term these days as the South American Sweitania is harder to come by these days. So like Xeno says, you could be getting any genus of tree that is called 'Mahogany'.

Just like when you go out and buy some timber (Lumber) whitewood graded to C24, you could be getting anything from Scot's PIne to Douglas Fir. That makes a big difference of you are building a deck. BUt then it is C24 graded....by machine...grrrrr.

[xenophobe]

My main points were really that with instruments, wood selection is usually based on aesthetics. Good mahogany would be solid cuts dried properly lacking inclusions, knots, etc... Bad mahogany would be diseased, knotted, rotted, or not dried to the right percentage of moisture. As to what species and cuts from specific areas on a log, or densities affecting tone? Of course, I'm sure it does affect tone but what should I look for or avoid? You can't tell until it's built and you can plug it in.

And you've misunderstood the whole bridge thing. The type of bridge does definitely affect tone. The effect on sustain on an amplified signal is irrelevant. The difference in resonance of a hardtail vs a trem doesn't matter unless you're holding that note until you feedback. And even then, it's still mostly irrelevant.

[Devotee]

A lot of luthiers claim one way to get a feel for the resonance and tonal qualities of piece of wood (or even a guitar for that matter) is to knock on it with the back of your knuckle, similarly to how you would knock on a door. This makes sense as you are in essence testing the resonant impulse response of the wood. Different types of would will have different impulse responses and therefore produce different frequencies and harmonic content and the audible resonance will decay at different rates (sustain). I don't know if it has been done before but it would definitely be possible to measure the impulse response and resonant harmonic frequency content of various tonewoods and it's something i would definitely be interested in researching.

You can set up various body blanks or planks of wood cut to the same dimensions and install a piezo of some sort. Then do the knocking test and record and analyse the signal coming from the piezo. An experiment like this would definitely be able to give a ballpark idea of the resonant nature of different kinds of tonewoods even considering the naturally occurring inconsistencies between tonewoods of the same species. But of course, one should always keep in mind that there are so many different factors that make a guitar sound the way it does apart from just the wood it's made of. Construction, pickups, scale length, strings, hardware, electronics and all that shit play a bigger role in the way the guitar sounds than most guitarists think.

Try this: hang a guitar from your shoulders and knock on it while muting the strings. Try it while plugged into an amp too. You'll find that some guitars sound insanely alive and respond everywhere you touch them while others sounds quite mute and docile. It's also quite interesting to find that most of the resonance actually comes from the neck.

[pro-fusion]

It's also quite interesting to find that most of the resonance actually comes from the neck.

This is a big reason I prefer guitars with thicker necks now (not 1959 baseball bats, though). The more neck there is, the bigger the tone--at least most of the time. That, and it makes my carpal tunnels happy.

[xenophobe]

I would agree that a thicker neck does seem to have better tone and sustain.

A lot of luthiers claim one way to get a feel for the resonance and tonal qualities of piece of wood (or even a guitar for that matter) is to knock on it with the back of your knuckle, similarly to how you would knock on a door.

Unless that luthier has built a lot of guitars that have failed that test that had horrible tone at completion, that test is mostly meaningless unless you have enough reference examples.