Losing their F#$%^&* minds!!!!!

[Chad]

~Upon arrival, guitar was tuned about 3x over 440.

Not sure what 3x over 440 is, but tuning can drift in shipment or in different humidty/temp levels. Sometimes guitars are intentionally sent out of tune to relieve string tension. How hard is it to tune a guitar anyway? This isn't a quality control issue.

~The neck needed an adjustment not for personal preferrence, but so the strings wouldn't rattle on the frets

The neck is made of wood and can drift in shipment or in different humidity/temp levels. Plus, some prefer a very straight neck, which may cause buzzing for some playing styles and not with others. Not a quality control issue.

~The action was way off...just for normal playing, not just to fit my style

Truss rod drifting could throw the action off. Aside from that, action is very much a personal preference. It is often set high from the factory on many guitars, but can easily be brought down. Also, nut height is usually set high because nut height can always be lowered, but not raised without a new nut (well not properly IMO). Summary: this is a setup issue. Not a quality control issue.

~The new pots were so stiff, it took two hands to turn them...all of them.

That I would like to see. I have played dozens of guitars over the years and never ran into a single pot so tight it took both hands to turn. Exaggerating a bit, maybe? Some pots are tight and some are loose. This is often a matter of specification and not quality. For example, CTS pots can be ordered with different levels of tightness.

~The guitar had been opened at one point and it was missing the plastic to protect it and missing some paperwork (case candy)

How do you know this happened at Gibson and not at the dealer?

~The guitar was so damn sticky to the touch with some unknown residue that it took a day to clean off. I don't know what it was, but it was real gummy.

Is it a nitro finish? Nitro can have a stickier feel and some guitars are worse than others. That's just the way nitro is. Perhaps the dealer poured syrup on the guitar?

[roodyrocker]

Wait a minute here Rudy....are you saying you actually use a Gibson Les Paul live on stage to make music? How can that be? Has that ever happened before?

This thread is a trip. If you don't like xyz brand why waste all the every talking about it? Just play what works for you.

Yeah Shawn, hard to believe that after turning those tuners a little bit a Les Paul can actually make music isn't it? I've been taking 3 Jacksons and 1 Les Paul Custom to most of my live gigs it seems.

I understand that Gibson does make guitars in the thousand dollar range.. They're called Melody Makers and Studios. If it appeases the audience one of the best playing (not sounding) Gibsons I've played recently was a Melody Maker. As for the studios, they are really nothing special and I would rather have a high end Epiphone then a Gibson studio... Cause really a studio is nothing more then a mid-quality Epiphone Standard without binding... that say Gibson on the headstock (and it's not even MOP it's gold print screened). It's not that I hate Gibsons' it's just that they're not as good as what you'd expect for the kinda cash they expect you to fork over, again I've owned a few and have been disappointed by all of them unless I dump cash into them (new pick-ups, fret work etc). More so since I've found better playing and sounding Les Pauls (outta the box as they say) from Epiphone (I just sold a MIK Classic Plus that blew every Gibson I've played or owned outta the water.... stock).... sad but true. I have really come to believe that playing a Gibson is kind of like driving a Ferrari it's a status thing. If you like your Gibson great, I just don't get the draw anymore. Even if the concerns Lefty has put forth are anecdotal there are valid QC issues.... I have seen everything from crooked binding, bad frets, paint over-spray, improperly plek'd nuts, poor cut and carve quality on the tops (yes I know they're CNC'd and not hand made anymore... maybe they need to adjust they're settings to get better carves), runs in the paint that were sanded and buffed flat but were still noticeable to the naked eye, scratchy pots, lose pots, and sharp edges on frets and saddles. These are things that are not anecdotal, these are QC issues, and yes I checked for B-stock stickers lol. I can't speak for neck breakage while sitting on a stand.... that would indicate a much bigger problem like there was not enough glue on the tennon. I understand that Fender US was out-shined by Fender Japan.... hence the reason Fender shut them down. What I am saying is I can get an outta the box MIA standard strat for a grand... it will have nice smooth frets with no sharp edges, the pot's will be clean, the paint will be flawless, and it will sound like a strat... Or I can drop a grand on a Gibson Les Paul Studio... and it will have thin sounding pick-ups (with or without coil tapping), boxy and sharp frets, baked maple fretboards (not even rosewood), with crap action. I know what I expect for my money.... and that is something that will awe me. I pick-up a new strat or US Jackson or Charvel, and I'm blown away. I'm not with Gibsons, they just don`t sound or feel right to me I`ve played classic Gibsons and they were incredible.... the new ones just don`t awe me.

I don't think that there is much out there that can compare with a USA Jackson. But still, that doesn't turn LP's into junk. And while you can certainly get some nice Epiphones they're not in the same league with a Les Paul Custom or a Historic. Not even close. Sharp fret ends? If it was a higher end Les Paul it probably had binding over the fret ends in which case either the climate change was so bad that the frets sprouted through the binding, it does happen, or you were playing a Chinese fake Les Paul which had no binding over the fret ends. As for the top carve, I don't know what you mean by it being off. Over the years its changed from the original 50's design and some people send theirs to places like Historic Makeovers to have the top carve done closer to what it was in the 50's. But there is nothing wrong with the top carve as is. On the pickups, Gibson has used a ton of different ones in different models. 57 Classics, 498T, Super 74's, EMG's, etc... Did they all suck? I doubt it but in the event you don't like any of those choices a pickup swap is a fairly common thing among guitar players. Put in whatever you like. Its ironic that I love Jacksons but never was a fan of their pickups in the 80's. I'm glad they use Duncans, Dimarzios, and EMG's these days. For the neck glue you mention, if they didn't use enough glue it would separate from the body not crack the headstock. So thats not a problem. Runs in the paint and overspay can happen. I've seen some but its not a prevalent problem.

Someone else on the forum said their neck broke in the stand not me so get your facts straight. I agree 100% with you on that. All of the breaks I have seen have been from a fall or a hit or my one buddy who was so dumb he stepped on it in a drunken stupor. Things like that aren't Gibsons fault. That just falls right under abuse/ misuse clause in the warranty. I will say this though, I have seen Fender, Jackson, ESP, Kramer and a myriad of other guitar necks that take a hit or fall way better than any Gibson and that's a fact.

I was just trying to say that the implication in this thread is that their headstocks are prone to crack pretty much spontaneously. Thats not the case and I'm glad to see we agree that usually there is something that caused it like a fall/hit.

As mentioned, my QC issue was with one guitar. I was pissed, attempted to return it but it was the last one so I kept it and got a discount.

Here were my issues...
~Upon arrival, guitar was tuned about 3x over 440.
~The neck needed an adjustment not for personal preferrence, but so the strings wouldn't rattle on the frets
~The action was way off...just for normal playing, not just to fit my style
~The new pots were so stiff, it took two hands to turn them...all of them.
~The guitar had been opened at one point and it was missing the plastic to protect it and missing some paperwork (case candy)
~The guitar was so damn sticky to the touch with some unknown residue that it took a day to clean off. I don't know what it was, but it was real gummy.

So my opinions are based on this one guitar only. This stuff could have been handled at the factory before it was sent out IMO And with such a trusted name as Gibson, this never should have happened.

Some of that stuff could have been handled at the factory. Some of it is not a flaw at all. For example the sticky finish residue. This is because of two things. One is if you bought one of Gibson's models that has a VOS finish (Vintage Original Spec) its a gunk that is on the hardware and sort of half polished finish simulating a lightly used guitar that does that. The guitar can be polished to a mirror shine to remove that if you wish, or leave it if you like the VOS look. The second reason the necks get sticky in particular is that Les Pauls are painted with nitro paint. It acts differently than poly finishes. It reacts with different people a little differently. It also changes over time. For example the clearcoat reacts and you'll notice the color change even. Thats why white Les Pauls end up looking cream colored.
Stuff like the case candy being missing could be an issue with the store you bought it from. Unfortunately, places like Guitar Center seem to separate the guitars from their cases and many people end up not getting that stuff or even the correct COA when they buy there. Its not Gibson's fault. Other stuff like stiff pots, a badly cut nut, etc... yes, Gibson should be catching that stuff before it goes out the door to the dealer. I have not run into much of this stuff on my Les Pauls is all I can tell you.

[Amerturk]

A little clarification. This isn't my first rodeo and I have been doing this a long time so...3x440 means that it was over tuned about 3 times that of standard tuning...not loosened for shipping...over tightened to the extreme.The guitar is a Worn Brown Explorer that I bought in 2008. I bought it from Musicians Friend. The pots don't take two hands to turn...but it is VERY difficult with one hand.The finish was just the worn finish without a clear. I had to take 0000 steal wool to it just to get the shit off it. I have never seen anything like this ever.I didn't buy it from Guitar Center. After my last experience with them (different issue) I will never even step into another store. I've already sent my letter to the corp. office. Fuck them. BTW, if a guitar is on the wall at Guitar Center, it's used and not new and should be priced accordingly. When I called Gibson to ask for the missing case candy (paperwork) they basically told me to fuck off and were NO help at all.Does this mean I'm finished with Gibson? No, just one bad experience with a bad product. BTW, Chad, how long have you worked for Gibson?

[Nimitz]

[Axegrinder87]

BTW, if a guitar is on the wall at Guitar Center, it's used and not new and should be priced accordingly.

I hear ya man. I'll never buy another Toyota again for the same reason.

[VitaminG]

Neither have you! You just happen to be one of those people who thinks their opinion is factual. I can sit here and say everything you and your"Bro's" on here have said is anecdotal as well .

I haven't stated any facts in this thread, but neither have I declared anything that I've said to be a fact. What I have done is asked questions and sought clarification & supporting evidence of the claims you've made. I've received no response to either. FACT!

oh, and I agree 100% with anyone who says something that supports something that I may have said earlier in this thread

[toejam]

oh, and I agree 100% with anyone who says something that supports something that I may have said earlier in this thread

Me, too. Fact!

[leftykingv2]

I haven't stated any facts in this thread, but neither have I declared anything that I've said to be a fact. What I have done is asked questions and sought clarification & supporting evidence of the claims you've made. I've received no response to either. FACT!

oh, and I agree 100% with anyone who says something that supports something that I may have said earlier in this thread

Neither have I. All i did was talk about my personal experiences and my friends personal experiences. What kind of response would you like? Also what are you? The C.S.I. commisioner for Gibson? Who the fuck are you that you think people need your okay or approval to post their personal opinion of a company or a companies products on a public forum? If you disagree that's fine but don't come on here acting like Hercule fucking Poirot looking for evidence and clues with your magnifying glass. I don't have to prove shit to you! Look at how many people have come on this thread and said they've had problems with that company. Of course there are going to be people who have had the opposite experience and have nothing but good things to say and that's fine. Just don't come on a public forum acting like you fucking own it when you don't! Also don't call people you have never even met and have no clue about Liars. You don't know me or my friends or what they've gone through. So help yourself to a big glass of shut the fuck up.

[pickford1625]

thats just mean....

[leftykingv2]

thats just mean....

I am the nicest person you'll ever meet bro but it just seems like there is a "Good ole boy" network on this forum. I'd be willing to bet a testicle that VitaminG and Toejam are friends on here. I come on here once a day (if that) to voice my opinion and check out other people pics and post, not to be interagated. I, unlike 90% of the people on this forum have a Masters in Jazz and play my guitar for a living, not write between fourteen and thirty five thousand posts about how I know everything. I'll bet they'd both be a lot better at their respective instruments if they played them half as much as they post on here. FACT!

[VitaminG]

Neither have I. All i did was talk about my personal experiences and my friends personal experiences.

But just a few posts back you were saying that people were calling the facts that you stated about QC, neck breakages, etc. only "anecdotal". So were they facts or just your opinion?

What kind of response would you like?

I'm not dictating your response. You respond however you want. It is a public forum, after all.

Also what are you? The C.S.I. commisioner for Gibson?

No, I'm not. What are the terms of employment? I'll need to leave early on Wednesdays - what is Gibson's policy on maintaining a work/life balance?

Who the fuck are you that you think people need your okay or approval to post their personal opinion of a company or a companies products on a public forum?

Who am I? I can tell you who I am not - the C.S.I Commissioner for Gibson. Not yet, anyway.

You don't need my approval to post your opinion or experience here. They removed that function on the forum. I just couldn't keep up with every new post to approve it and the admins found it was bogging the forum down. So please, continue to post away with my blessing. You're welcome.

If you disagree that's fine but don't come on here acting like Hercule fucking Poirot looking for evidence and clues with your magnifying glass. I don't have to prove shit to you!

Of course you don't. But you claimed some "facts". I asked you to back them with actual data.

Look at how many people have come on this thread and said they've had problems with that company.

And look at how many who have owned a bunch of new & old Gibsons that have had the opposite experience. Does that refute some of your "facts"?

Of course there are going to be people who have had the opposite experience and have nothing but good things to say and that's fine.

Oh, I was just saying something similar!

Just don't come on a public forum acting like you fucking own it when you don't!

I don't believe I have. But you don't come on a public forum if you can't handle someone calling you on the claims that you make.

Also don't call people you have never even met and have no clue about Liars.

I look forward to you quoting my post in this thread where I called you a liar. Anytime you're ready.

You don't know me or my friends or what they've gone through.

True. Apart from where you outlined it during the course of this thread.

So help yourself to a big glass of shut the fuck up.

But I have already have this cup of coffee...

[Evol]

interagated.

Masters in Jazz

interagated.

Masters in Jazz

interagated.

Who, wait, what?

[RacerX]

not write between fourteen and thirty five thousand posts about how I know everything.

Thanks for leaving me out of that group!

[leftykingv2]

@Vitamin G I stand corrected. You never called anyone a liar. Just every other word aside from liar.

[CowboyFromHell]

@Vitamin G I stand corrected. You never called anyone a liar. Just every other word aside from liar.

Seems nobody else is gonna say it so I will... if this is your best contribution to the forum and all you can do is bitch, whine, and piss people off (or get pissed off when someone calls you on something or disagrees) then maybe it's time for you to find a new forum. I don't expect us all to agree, I disagree with several people on here at times. Yes we've has words but those involved, myself included, were big enough to get over it and get along. Seems it's time you to do just that. Get along or move along.