Losing their F#$%^&* minds!!!!!

[emperor_black]

87.4% of all statistics are manufactured.

No, its actually 47%. And 75% of people always get the 47% part wrong.

I'd buy an LP...if it had a Floyd.

[j2379]

maiden for the most part its the fact its slab mahogany and w a angled headstock u have exposed end grain. there is also the truss rod so theres probably 3/4sq" worth of wood. old deans same thing even hamers that werent 3 piece necks.

[sully]

. The back and forth between him Greg Crowe were classic

Man, was that ever. Greg cracked me up when he'd go back and forth with him.

Sully

[VitaminG]

I'm not saying your friend is a liar. What I'm saying is you are pulling out wild statements as fact with nothing but conjecture to back them up.

come on, man. You know that "I know this guy who said..." with a negative experience ALWAYS trumps the word of a roomful of guys who actually own (often many of) and have good things to say about the instruments in question.

MC is a dick...plain and simple. He used to get in arguments here, CC and other forums when he tries to re-write history of Charvel/Jackson.

You mean, like the "signature" Charvels they were marketing (own one made by the guy who made them first). All well known Charvels, but the originals were built for the artists by Grover long after Wayne had left.

I always wanted a Les Paul. There just seemed to be wild differences between each one that I played in feel and tone. Very inconsistent... That being said, it just wasn't what I liked. If I found one that jived with me, I would bag it. I just haven't played one in a store that I liked. I would never buy one un-played.

-Nate

Same here. I did find one that really connected. It was a fireburst Studio with gold hardware. Played beautifully, sounded great, balanced really nice. Just couldn't swing it at the time. When the cash was available, I fell in love with a Deluxe V-neck Strat instead. Such a slut

[straycat]

Greg always had me laughing when those two went at it.Ended staying up all night just to see what would happen.Good times.
I have fixed a few L.P. headstock breaks on ones with a volute so that throws that theory out the window.

[DonP]

I had a friend that had a Gibson SG, he had it on a stand on his bed and it fell. The neck broke in half! I've had a beat up squire strat that I used to flip over my shoulder (like Vai and Malmsteen) and drop on it's neck constantly and it never broke; thats a $100 guitar.

Oh, so Gibson should sacrafice the tone and make their guitars out of shit wood because idiots knock them off the bed?

All this whining about breaks is laughable. Gibson is making the guitars people want or else they would not be selling.

End of story.

[Chad]

Yeah, it's the Gibson design. It's well known that most Fender necks can be used as weapons, but just because Fender necks are designed that way doesn't make them better instruments. If a person is going to be throwing guitars in their bedroom, knocking them off their bed, or swinging them through the air like an idiot, then they'd probably be better off with a non-Gibson style neck design.

Don't volutes just displace the break and actually make the necks harder to repair in the event of a break?

[leftykingv2]

I could honestly care less if any you believe what I am saying about what my friends have been through with their Gibsons. Believe what you want. I just left one of the guys house's and he is damn near heart broken about it. Do what you want and to quote " Hans and Franz; Hear me now and believe me later" If you drop one of those things you'll be in the same boat. I' am glad I have kept my 76 in the case the whole time I've had it other wise I could be in the hot water.

[leftykingv2]

I'm not saying your friend is a liar. What I'm saying is you are pulling out wild statements as fact with nothing but conjecture to back them up.

Yeah cuase everyone here knows Gibson necks never break! Total conjecture!!!!:think:

[roodyrocker]

I have several Les Pauls ranging from 1974 to 2012 models. While I agree with you about the price being insanely high, I do not agree about the quality going to hell. Even I've had some minor issues on some of them such as my 57 LPC Reissue. On that guitar the high E string sounded like it was fretting out even when strummed open. It was flashing on the saddle slot that kept the saddle from seating all the way. Fixed quickly by filing the saddle seats in the bridge. But their rate is no worse than other large manufacturers. As for the neck breakage issue, yeah if they're dropped they're prone to snapping. The Volute does add strength but if you notice when those headstocks break they still break in the same area. Also, many Les Paul purists hate the Volute because its a departure from the original 50's design. I happen to like it. And the way Les Pauls have been built has changed over time. Solid bodies, pancake bodies, weight relieved, chambered, etc... None are better or worse, just what you prefer. I can't say anything about your friends' experience with them as I have no idea what issues they had or what Gibson did about it. While I'm not thrilled with Gibson's pricing my beloved USA Jacksons aren't exactly cheap either. Just saw an ad from a large retailer for Mahogany SL2H new at $3K.

[toejam]

Maybe be more careful and don't drop it? Any guitar can break if you do that. Duh.

[vector]

I paid damn-near 4 grand for a new, custom LP Axcess. Not the best guitar I've ever played, by a LONG shot! In essence, I paid that much for a very rare bit of bragging rights and good looking guitar that plays and sounds okay.
Would I do it again?

Nope.

[VitaminG]

Yeah, it's the Gibson design. It's well known that most Fender necks can be used as weapons, but just because Fender necks are designed that way doesn't make them better instruments. If a person is going to be throwing guitars in their bedroom, knocking them off their bed, or swinging them through the air like an idiot, then they'd probably be better off with a non-Gibson style neck design.

you ever see Gary Moore's Emerald Aisles video? He switches between the red Strat & the Peter Green Les Paul during performances (it was around '83). Finishes one song, hoists the Strat over his shoulder and it crashes to the stage for his tech to pick up. Finishes another song, reverently lays the LP on the stage. Keep in mind, the Strat wasn't a throw away guitar - he kept coming back to it for decades. But it could take a knock

[VitaminG]

Yeah cuase everyone here knows Gibson necks never break! Total conjecture!!!!:think:

I don't think a single person in this thread has refuted that Gibsons have a known neck break issue.

I believe Hellbat may have been referring to stuff like "These guitars have not changed in 50+ years in the least bit! The headstock is still pitched at the wrong angle. There is STILL no volute in the neck. They're just about all still horribly balanced. They still have the highest neck breakage percentage in the business" as conjecture.

A bunch of Les Paul owners, some who own MANY at all kinds of price points, have argued against most of those points. The guitars have changed significantly in 50+ years. That has been pointed out by others. What is wrong about the neck angle? Plenty of Gibson-alikes in the market place have taken direct queues from how Gibson are doing it, whether because there are construction benefits to it, or just that buyers seem to like it, I don't know. Why is a volute necessary? I own a bunch of guitars by different manufacturers - not one has a volute. The balance of LPs has changed as the construction has changed. I believe they could have among the highest number of neck breaks in the business. The highest percentage? How about you quote some actual industry figures - Gibson makes a helluva a lot of LPs - looking at the actual percentage of broken necks vs guitars in circulation rather than just the number of repairs in a single guitar shop would be interesting.

While we're pulling stats out of our asses, let's suppose the industry wide expectation is 1% for warranty repairs on neck breaks for guitars produced each year. If Hamer hits 1% in 2012, that's less than 20 guitars. If Gibson does, it's over 500 guitars in a year. Lot more people are going to notice Gibson-type numbers. Most people would respond "What's a Hamer?"

[paulbag]

Screw Gibson...play Jackson pointies