Losing their F#$%^&* minds!!!!!

[CowboyFromHell]

Seems once again life proves that common sense just isn't that common after all.

[Sephiroth]

I just looked at Gibson's prices and I must say I think the whole company is smoking crack! Four grand now for a regular Les Paul custom?????? You must be joking! These guitars have not changed in 50+ years in the least bit! The headstock is still pitched at the wrong angle. There is STILL no volute in the neck. They're just about all still horribly balanced. They still have the highest neck breakage percentage in the business. I personally have three friends who have bought from Gibson in the past five years who have had nothing but problems and when you pay this kind of money for a guitar it should be perfect. All of my friends had issues with the company when it comes to trying to get factory defects fixed under warranty. In two instances my friends not only got the guitar back from the company with the same issue they sent it away to get fixed for but they came back unfixed and with new damage!!!! This company has gone to shit since it moved to Tennessee! If you want a real Les Paul buy from Heritage! They not only build a quality instrument but they stand behind their product one hundred percent. I know all kinds of people are going to hate this thread but think about what you're actually buying and how much it's REALLY WORTH!!! NO production model guitar is worth four thousand dollars! For that price Jackson and a whole myriad of other companies will build you ANYTHING you want! Please don't be be stupid and post on here that "Slash" and "Zakk" play Gibson because anyone with a brain knows their guitars are ghost built.

Well first off I have never personally seen a Gibson with quality issues, but I've heard way too many stories from credible people to not doubt they're out there.

And for a guitar that's NOT getting rarer as they keep producing more by the thousands per year, Gibson's prices (much like Jackson USA prices) are ridiculous. It's not like there's a shortage of Gibsons and I can get one pretty much anywhere. I remember when I was in high school and a standard was around $800. NOw that exact same guitar costs around $2200 online and even more if you buy local.

And it's like they don't want metal guitarists buying with insisting on tree-trunk necks while making the slim necks hard to find.

In all honesty I think the higher-end Epiphone Les Pauls are more worth the money than any current Gibson.

[Hellbat]

When I paid around $1K new for my Model 5 Charvel, LP Standards were selling for around $750. I wish I bought about 8 back then to sit on and flip now hehe.

[emperor_black]

When I paid around $1K new for my Model 5 Charvel, LP Standards were selling for around $750. I wish I bought about 8 back then to sit on and flip now hehe.

Maybe you can buy them for 4K now and 10 years later they might be worth 6K or 8K?

[j2379]

then you my friend paid too much back then. when i bought my mod6, it was the same price as the model 88, and st-3's bolt ons around $750. I still remember sitting there w my parents with all 3 guitars up against a wall of marshalls in sam ash. funny thing is i bought the mod6 because it was black and i hated the slanted hum in the 88, passed on the ST because i was there to replace the st-3 i had just cracked in half....

When I paid around $1K new for my Model 5 Charvel, LP Standards were selling for around $750. I wish I bought about 8 back then to sit on and flip now hehe.

[Hellbat]

Well, it was just below 1K with chainsaw case and the Canadian dollar was worth around .80 cents US at the time, (1986/87) so that would have worked out to around $800 US. (Which would have made those LP Standards around $600 US!)

[emperor_black]

Hurry the fuck up building those time machines! We HAVE TO GO BACK!!

[Sephiroth]

Well you can always double the prices of the ones you already have by trashing their finishes and selling them as "relic" condition

[ginsambo]

Just out of interest, in light of the baked maple/Rosewood issues, what woods are considered 'Mahogany' these days? I just went down the specialist lumber yard yesterday, they had some big chunky 20" x 5" x 18' slabs of Sapele that looked alot like something nice from the tropics in it's roughsawn state. Anyway, being an long established, traditional wood yard that labels wood for what it actually is, they just laughed when I mentioned 'Mahogany'.

So I am thinking, even Sapele doesn't look like typical Sapele when it is rift sawn as opposed to quartsawn, the former sawing method which shows up the obvious trademark stripes. And some riftsawn pieces of Utile are pretty convincing alternative for the real mahogany. Personally it doesn't worry me what wood the manufacturers use, so long as they are being straight and honest and not labelling or implying something is still Brazilian Mahogany, which isn't used anymore and I appreciate the tremendous pressure traditional manufacturers are under to create authentic traditional goods. But, it is all about customer expectation, as with any industry. and I know the 70's Les Pauls has composite Maple necks and some of them are great.

Anyway it all good, it means I can get big discounts on stuff like Monkey Pod and Utile and of course Sapele, but all the same I am curious as to what sort of 'Mahogany' they use these days. I wish that manufacturers, instead of being more loosely generic in terms of what species...or even genus the name 'Mahogany' covers, would be more like my timber yard and call a spade a spade. FFS. By implying half truths together with a general lack of information, it is only breeding contempt and misunderstanding towards the manufacturers.

There is only one thing that competes with UK house price inflation and that is the price of American made guitars from traditional manufacturers. I'd rather make my own in both cases.

[Sephiroth]

Just out of interest, in light of the baked maple/Rosewood issues, what woods are considered 'Mahogany' these days? I just went down the specialist lumber yard yesterday, they had some big chunky 20" x 5" x 18' slabs of Sapele that looked alot like something nice from the tropics in it's roughsawn state. Anyway, being an long established, traditional wood yard that labels wood for what it actually is, they just laughed when I mentioned 'Mahogany'.

So I am thinking, even Sapele doesn't look like typical Sapele when it is rift sawn as opposed to quartsawn, the former sawing method which shows up the obvious trademark stripes. And some riftsawn pieces of Utile are pretty convincing alternative for the real mahogany. Personally it doesn't worry me what wood the manufacturers use, so long as they are being straight and honest and not labelling or implying something is still Brazilian Mahogany, which isn't used anymore and I appreciate the tremendous pressure traditional manufacturers are under to create authentic traditional goods. But, it is all about customer expectation, as with any industry. and I know the 70's Les Pauls has composite Maple necks and some of them are great.

Anyway it all good, it means I can get big discounts on stuff like Monkey Pod and Utile and of course Sapele, but all the same I am curious as to what sort of 'Mahogany' they use these days. I wish that manufacturers, instead of being more loosely generic in terms of what species...or even genus the name 'Mahogany' covers, would be more like my timber yard and call a spade a spade. FFS. By implying half truths together with a general lack of information, it is only breeding contempt and misunderstanding towards the manufacturers.

There is only one thing that competes with UK house price inflation and that is the price of American made guitars from traditional manufacturers. I'd rather make my own in both cases.

Sounds like how I now hear people calling agathis and NATO woods "types of mahogany" as now it seems like every cheap guitar is "mahogany"

[leftykingv2]

Sounds like how I now hear people calling agathis and NATO woods "types of mahogany" as now it seems like every cheap guitar is "mahogany"

What is the difference between Mahogany and Nato Mahogany anyway?

[Amerturk]

Gibson, like other guitar companies are in a desperate time. Guitar sales are way down, the "era" of guitars is long over and they seem to come up with any crazy idea in order to make a buck. Reverse Flying V? What the fuck was that! I can only speak of my experience when it comes to Gibson's quality control. I bought a brand new Gibson about 5 years ago and upon arrival, I spent the next few months getting it right. I was shocked at how this thing left the factory. So why didn't I just return it? It was the last one and I wanted it. I was given a partial refund, but the quality sucked ass....although nothing I couldn't do myself.

Jackson Custom Shop: 2 year wait? I'm sure the cheap ass bastards that hire ONE employee to do all the work could actually hire more people to put out guitars at a faster pace but 2 years? Fuck that. I wonder if the dumbshits ever thought if they would actually have more orders if potential customers knew it wouldn't take so long to turn out on fucking guitar. There is no myth or legend out in the player world of "dude, I finally got my custom order that took two years for them to build".... how long does it actually take to build a guitar of custom shop quality?....a 30-60 day turn around is more like it.

[leftykingv2]

@ Amerturk; That's all I was trying to say as well from the very start of this thread....These are my opinions and personal experiences with Gibson's later models. I stated at least three times how much I love my original 1976 Les Paul but all just about everybody on here heard was " Oh lefty doesn't like Gibson." To be honest I am still of the opinion that they're overpriced, poorly balanced and have neck breakage issues and at the price Gibson is charging for a guitar the quality control should be much higher. Some of the people on here took it so personally that I am starting to wonder if they're Gibson employees. Thank you for sharing/being objective and not turning this into a personal attack. One more time for the cheap seats; I LOVE MY 1976 LES PAUL!

[VitaminG]

I feel the same. People who agree with me are good, reasonable folk & capable of rational thought & objectivity. People who don't agree with me, who have different opinions or whose experience differs from my own clearly have an agenda, take things too personally & maybe should move to communist China to live with the rest of their commie brethren.

[Sephiroth]

Gibson, like other guitar companies are in a desperate time. Guitar sales are way down, the "era" of guitars is long over and they seem to come up with any crazy idea in order to make a buck. Reverse Flying V? What the fuck was that! I can only speak of my experience when it comes to Gibson's quality control. I bought a brand new Gibson about 5 years ago and upon arrival, I spent the next few months getting it right. I was shocked at how this thing left the factory. So why didn't I just return it? It was the last one and I wanted it. I was given a partial refund, but the quality sucked ass....although nothing I couldn't do myself.

Jackson Custom Shop: 2 year wait? I'm sure the cheap ass bastards that hire ONE employee to do all the work could actually hire more people to put out guitars at a faster pace but 2 years? Fuck that. I wonder if the dumbshits ever thought if they would actually have more orders if potential customers knew it wouldn't take so long to turn out on fucking guitar. There is no myth or legend out in the player world of "dude, I finally got my custom order that took two years for them to build".... how long does it actually take to build a guitar of custom shop quality?....a 30-60 day turn around is more like it.

Solution for Gibson: raise prices of a LP every four months! Surely that'll help increase sales!