Losing their F#$%^&* minds!!!!!

[sambencuda]

I've never dropped a guitar or had one fall. I guess I'm lucky. If I did, I'd expect the worst and hope for the best. I bought a brand new LPC at the end of 1990 for about $1000. seems like a bargain now, but back then it was small fortune to me. Yes Gibson headstocks break more than other brands, but I'll take that chance. Are the prices to high? Yes, but so is the average price of new car. 25 - 30 grand for an average priced new car. How about USA select Jacksons? $3000 for a bolt on PC-1? I bought a brand new PC-1 from Matt about 6 years ago for around $1000 less than the price is today. It's not just Gibson. It's just the way it is man.

[ulijdavid]

If you look at a Les Paul Custom, it is a "Custom Shop" build. At $3800-$4000 I think that is right on par with the cost of a Jackson custom shop (without the 2 year build time). And as Sambencuda has pointed out, a Les Paul Standard is less than the cost of a new Jackson USA select. I have seen hit or miss quality on all brands.

[vector]

I feel the same. People who agree with me are good, reasonable folk & capable of rational thought & objectivity. People who don't agree with me, who have different opinions or whose experience differs from my own clearly have an agenda, take things too personally & maybe should move to communist China to live with the rest of their commie brethren.

[leftykingv2]

I feel the same. People who agree with me are good, reasonable folk & capable of rational thought & objectivity. People who don't agree with me, who have different opinions or whose experience differs from my own clearly have an agenda, take things too personally & maybe should move to communist China to live with the rest of their commie brethren.

I don't mind people's opinions and or the fact that they may disagree with me or my opinions. I mind when people try to make me look like I am lying about what I've seen with my own two eyes when you weren't there to see what I've seen. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make your opinion worth any less than mine and that's a two way street bro!

[leftykingv2]

If you look at a Les Paul Custom, it is a "Custom Shop" build. At $3800-$4000 I think that is right on par with the cost of a Jackson custom shop (without the 2 year build time). And as Sambencuda has pointed out, a Les Paul Standard is less than the cost of a new Jackson USA select. I have seen hit or miss quality on all brands.

I'm left handed and I paid less for my USA Select KV2 than a Les Paul standard. I don't know where you guys shop but I can get a KE2,SL1,SL2 RR1,RR1T, or KV2 for $1999.95 brand new still in the box and left handed for less than a new Les Paul standard. That price is for standard colors only. If you don't believe it check out Xtreme Lefty Guitars.

[roodyrocker]

Too many posts to quote them all so I'll just ramble on. I'll start by saying I have Les Pauls myself so while I don't doubt that someone has had an issue with theirs it's still a far stretch to say that Gibson quality has gone to crap. I know from my own experiences owning them that they're not. I'm not saying they're perfect either. The two, out of several I have, were minor. One was the high E saddle not seated all the way that I mentioned before. The other is a wiring issue with a neck pickup not putting out full volume compared to the bridge. Which I will also say I've experienced similar wiring issues from other manufacturers. Nothing unusual and nothing not fixable.
The headstock breakage issue happens if the guitars is dropped or takes a hit. When I play out live most of the time my Les Paul out that night stays in the case rather than a guitar stand so that I don't risk it.
I'm not an expert on guitar woods but from I understand Mahogany is grown in other parts of the world. True Honduran Mahogany hasn't been used in a long time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. Gibson generally uses lighter Mahogany for their R9 guitars because the diehard Gibson fans want lighter wood. This does not make it better, just lighter. Over the years they've used mahogany, maple, and back to mahogany necks. Again no better or worse just different.
Les Pauls have nitro paint so they are quite different from our Jacksons. They check, crack, and fade over time. Some Gibson guys expose their guitars to cold, take razed blades to the finish to check it, and expose it to sun to accelerate fading. It's a different world there!
On their prices, well none of us like paying $4K for a guitar but the LPC is one of their upper end guitars along with their Reissue/Historic line. You can buy a USA made LP Studio for much less. Then in between you have the Traditionals and Standards. It's not like everything they make is several thound dollars. And keep in mind that depending on what model you buy some actually hold their value quite well or even go up!
And finally, Gibson does have a pretty good service with being able to look up and verify guitars for you by serial number. A pretty cool service if you're considering buying a used guitar. Us Jackson fans have to rely on each other for such things as "what year was my guitar made?". Forum members like Johnnyryche and Racerx keep their own logs. Good luck getting info from Jackson. I'm not a Gibson employee, I love my Jacksons but enjoy Les Pauls as well.
Oh yeah, I forgot another thing. What's this balance issue mentioned? My Les Pauls balance just fine. Never had a problem with them.

[Amerturk]

Obviously Gibson has to be doing something right otherwise they would be out of Business. Gibson is a leader in the guitar world and have been for some time. You expect quality EVERY time. With that, they are not perfect, but it amazes me some of the shit they let fly past quality control. It's a very simple process to fix. Stop putting out stupid shit like the reverse V, stick with it's traditional guitars and hire just one more dude that would give his left nut to work there to QC after the final QC. If it's not right, DON'T SEND IT OUT.

Anyway, just my two cents.

[leftykingv2]

Too many posts to quote them all so I'll just ramble on. I'll start by saying I have Les Pauls myself so while I don't doubt that someone has had an issue with theirs it's still a far stretch to say that Gibson quality has gone to crap. I know from my own experiences owning them that they're not. I'm not saying they're perfect either. The two, out of several I have, were minor. One was the high E saddle not seated all the way that I mentioned before. The other is a wiring issue with a neck pickup not putting out full volume compared to the bridge. Which I will also say I've experienced similar wiring issues from other manufacturers. Nothing unusual and nothing not fixable.
The headstock breakage issue happens if the guitars is dropped or takes a hit. When I play out live most of the time my Les Paul out that night stays in the case rather than a guitar stand so that I don't risk it.
I'm not an expert on guitar woods but from I understand Mahogany is grown in other parts of the world. True Honduran Mahogany hasn't been used in a long time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. Gibson generally uses lighter Mahogany for their R9 guitars because the diehard Gibson fans want lighter wood. This does not make it better, just lighter. Over the years they've used mahogany, maple, and back to mahogany necks. Again no better or worse just different.
Les Pauls have nitro paint so they are quite different from our Jacksons. They check, crack, and fade over time. Some Gibson guys expose their guitars to cold, take razed blades to the finish to check it, and expose it to sun to accelerate fading. It's a different world there!
On their prices, well none of us like paying $4K for a guitar but the LPC is one of their upper end guitars along with their Reissue/Historic line. You can buy a USA made LP Studio for much less. Then in between you have the Traditionals and Standards. It's not like everything they make is several thound dollars. And keep in mind that depending on what model you buy some actually hold their value quite well or even go up!
And finally, Gibson does have a pretty good service with being able to look up and verify guitars for you by serial number. A pretty cool service if you're considering buying a used guitar. Us Jackson fans have to rely on each other for such things as "what year was my guitar made?". Forum members like Johnnyryche and Racerx keep their own logs. Good luck getting info from Jackson. I'm not a Gibson employee, I love my Jacksons but enjoy Les Pauls as well.
Oh yeah, I forgot another thing. What's this balance issue mentioned? My Les Pauls balance just fine. Never had a problem with them.

Awesome post and very informative! I am with you on the fact that I love my original 1976 Les Paul. On the balance thing mine is very well balanced as well but, the last three I have played at the guitar center here in Pgh Pa. have not been balanced very well at all. All three were body heavy big time and just felt horrible in my hands compared to the one I own. They all had horrible factory set ups and one even had a nice gash in the body near the jack. When I looked it over before I played it I made sure to point it out to the sales rep. so he didn't try to pin the gash on me! Granted I am a left handed player so I can't try out as many Les Pauls as everyone else.

[leftykingv2]

Obviously Gibson has to be doing something right otherwise they would be out of Business. Gibson is a leader in the guitar world and have been for some time. You expect quality EVERY time. With that, they are not perfect, but it amazes me some of the shit they let fly past quality control. It's a very simple process to fix. Stop putting out stupid shit like the reverse V, stick with it's traditional guitars and hire just one more dude that would give his left nut to work there to QC after the final QC. If it's not right, DON'T SEND IT OUT.

Anyway, just my two cents.

This is what I've been saying the whole time as well! For that price quality control should be much much better.

[roodyrocker]

Obviously Gibson has to be doing something right otherwise they would be out of Business. Gibson is a leader in the guitar world and have been for some time. You expect quality EVERY time. With that, they are not perfect, but it amazes me some of the shit they let fly past quality control. It's a very simple process to fix. Stop putting out stupid shit like the reverse V, stick with it's traditional guitars and hire just one more dude that would give his left nut to work there to QC after the final QC. If it's not right, DON'T SEND IT OUT.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Im no fan of the Reverse V monstrosity either. However, thats not the same as poor quality control. That Reverse V may very well be a high quality built guitar. It doesn't change the fact thats its ugly and no one wants it. The two are different things.

Awesome post and very informative! I am with you on the fact that I love my original 1976 Les Paul. On the balance thing mine is very well balanced as well but, the last three I have played at the guitar center here in Pgh Pa. have not been balanced very well at all. All three were body heavy big time and just felt horrible in my hands compared to the one I own. They all had horrible factory set ups and one even had a nice gash in the body near the jack. When I looked it over before I played it I made sure to point it out to the sales rep. so he didn't try to pin the gash on me! Granted I am a left handed player so I can't try out as many Les Pauls as everyone else.

You have to be careful about what defects the guitar left the factory with vs. those it suffered hanging on the wall at a music store. Things like a big gash in the finish sound more like something that happened at the dealer rather than the factory. Can't really blame Gibson for that. The setup OTOH, I'll grant you the fact that Gibson's setups from the factory leave a lot to be desired. but thats not a defect, most people will want to have a setup of their liking put on it anyway. In the area of factory setups I think Jackson excells here. I've bought some Jackson guitars that I literally left the factory setup alone on. At the very least they are definetly playable right out of the box and could be gigged if you had to. Gibson's setups OTOH are average at best, although I have had a few exceptions and those were mostly sig models.

[cullenszoo]

To the OP, LeftyKingv2, You have made some valid points and the original issue might come less from WHAT you said but rather HOW you said it. Translation: Slow your roll hondo, take a breath and quit telling us how much you LOVE your 76 LP. You sound like a teenager about to grow his first chin whisker!

I completely agree that $4k is a lot for a guitar. That said the plant in TENNESSEE (YOU YANKEE SNOB) handcrafts much of each and every guitar. You might start by watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkyXEmmFT2U
There's a total of 3 parts. having watched several brands factory tour videos you might note there is a lot of hands on work done at gibson. That costs money and demands a higher price. The down side to having much of the guitar hand crafted is human error. So you see, compared to most handcrafted guitars, the production LPs are about right price wise.

Might it be possible that your friends suffer more breakages because they are mishandling their expensive guitars? Most LP necks are not made from maple, which is a pretty heavy wood. Your making an apples to oranges comparison.

There is something strange going on over at gibby. I have been outspoken on another forum stating they have mishandled the Kramer brand they bought. They put a licensed Floyd Rose on a $1500 Kramer model and reserve the OFR for the high dollar Gibson lines. That said, there has been a trend across several brands to put cheaper hardware on models to increase profit. It's just a sign of the times.

As for Ghost made guitars, whether you know it or not, the guitars artists use are often highly customized and made with the best quality parts. They are also over built to withstand the stress of constant playing and touring. God forbid a huge audience should see a guitar fall apart during a concert.

Gibson's customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I have run into a few stories where people tried to get warranty work done and it would be less of a hassle to return the guitar where they bought it. Issues with fedex not wanting to pick up the package, taking FOREVER to get anything fixed. I personally would take the 3 hour drive and hand deliver it to the factory and deal with it in person.

There are two reasons your last test drives turned out bad. One, you went to GC. God only knows how long that guitar has been there and what doofus was drooling over just before you. Second, Being made in TENNESSEE they don't ship the good guitars up north. LOL! I would invite you to come down south and try them down here but with your attitude your liable not to make it back home.

[markD]

i have been a gibson hater for years. too much money. crappy quality control. blah, blah. i would not even CONSIDER purchasing a gibson - EVER.

one day i realized that there was a void in my available guitars. i had just about everything except the gibson guitars - les paul and sg. so, i went cheap and bought epiphone because i was NOT going to pay gibson money. well, i happened to find two VERY nice epiphones - a LP and an SG. i was happy....or so i thought.

one day, just for fun, i tried a real gibson les paul. the sound my epiphone was giving me wasn't even close to the real thing. my epiphone didn't even seem to be made out of the same materials!!! i still liked it, so i kept it, but i realized i needed a real gibson.

the search began. with the les paul, i found quality all over the place. i played, probably, 55 les pauls locally before i settled on the one i got - a NOS 2011 "GC exclusive" tarditional pro w/ P90s. in short order i swapped the P90s for mini humbuckers (i wanted a gold top deluxe, but the only one in the area was a dog). i have been pretty pleased with the guitar. i still DID find tons of QC issues surrounding the LP specifically. many of them had weird little quirks - orange peel/flashing in the paint, cracked fretboards, scuffs on the headstock, bent pots, etc. yes, some of those could be store damage, but it was there and very prevalent on the les pauls.

for my SG, i decided to buy sight unseen from AMS. it came the other day, a 2013 SG standard with the robo tuning crap on the headstock. it was PERFECT right out of the box. all i did was insert the battery to the robo tuning thing, plug the guitar into my tc polytune (to check the robo tuner's accuracy) and engaged robo tuner to tune the guitar. that device was dead on with the polytune. the guitar's setup out of the box was perfect for me. it was an awesome experience - within 10 minutes the guitar was unboxed, tuned and being played.

i liked the SG so much that i took the LP to GC and sold it for $1000 in literally 3 minutes. i walked in the door and before i was even done checking the guitar in, the sales guy was cutting me a check for $1000. that may sound like i took a beating, but i STOLE the guitar from GC. it had been marked down on clearance, but i had one of their killer coupons from the internet, so i walked out with a brand new LP for $1100. so it cost me $100 to have a gibson for several months. not too bad of a return...

anyway, the moral of my post? gibsons aren't so bad. in fact later this week (or maybe next) i am gonna pick up a NOS sg junior....i am starting a new doom band and the sg is the shit for that!!!

[DonP]

I've stayed away from robots but it sounds like they fixed the quirks.

[lefty]

You have to be careful about what defects the guitar left the factory with vs. those it suffered hanging on the wall at a music store. Things like a big gash in the finish sound more like something that happened at the dealer rather than the factory. Can't really blame Gibson for that. The setup OTOH, I'll grant you the fact that Gibson's setups from the factory leave a lot to be desired. but thats not a defect, most people will want to have a setup of their liking put on it anyway. In the area of factory setups I think Jackson excells here. I've bought some Jackson guitars that I literally left the factory setup alone on. At the very least they are definetly playable right out of the box and could be gigged if you had to. Gibson's setups OTOH are average at best, although I have had a few exceptions and those were mostly sig models.

Also, remember that if it's a new Gibson, you can have it set up
to your specs at an authorized service center for free under the warranty.
On the other hand, how do you know if you're going to like the guitar in
the first place if the factory setup is terrible as it hangs on the wall at
the store? Seems like most guitar shops could spot a shitty setup when
they're unpacking the thing, and at least get it close without taking too
much time on it...

[markD]

for the cost of a les paul, you would think most stores wouldn't allow little jackasses to take them down and jam metalli-cock's "enter sandman"....the high-end PRS guitars are usually out of reach, why not the gibsons?