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Losing their F#$%^&* minds!!!!!

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  • Totally agree expectation is the name of the game. You do someone a favour and give someone your services or goods for cheap and they just treat you like a whore. You price yourself out of the market and people think you are some miracle maker godsend and sing your praises, but expect miracles. Although in both cases the quality of work you do is the same. In our world people only respect one thing. Money. Although most people these days usually expect miracles whilst treating you like a whore.

    Regarding guitars though, one piece of mahogany for a body = rejecting a lot of other pieces of mahogany, one decent flame maple bookmatched cap = $'s and so it goes on. If you want quality, you are effectively paying for five or six or more possible guitars and tewenty times materials all down the line as the stringent rejections from body woods to finishes cost $'s. I think the Taylor guitars post put it well and that is the way I see it anyway.

    I always look at it like, what would it cost me to make something + a healthy profit margin. Once you've brought home your timber and chucked all the shaky stuff out, bought the hardware, bid on a nice maple cap etc etc. it soon adds up, then there is the profit margin. Take a Les Paul down your luthiers or add up the time it takes you to make one yourself ad Gibby's will seem like a bargain.

    Remember also that the dollar and £ are on the verge of becoming worthless, other currencies have climbed against them and add your taxes and ethical sourcing by law, it all adds up.

    I was considering getting a chinese copy, but then I thought, it's wrong for two reasons, the chinese factory owners are letting their staff spray isocyanates without any PPE equipment and they probably don't even have dust extractors plus the pressure on staff to work all hours. But then I thought about it and the companies that log the wood for the big guitar companies proabbly don't have PPE for heir staff either and they probably work all hours and come to think of it, I, and everyone I know works all hours.

    Break down the price differences - $300 vs $2000...well veneer back and front and copmposite body of dubious wood instead of one piece mahogany with a maple cap, there are loads of dollars right there. Attention to detail, paint. Two piece scarf neck joint as opposed to one piece....etc etc. and the hardware and pups do not even compare. I think if Gibby's were actually made in China, under licence say for the chinese market, they would retail for $1200.

    But hey, look on the bright side, in ten years, when we are all carting home wheelbarrows of $'s or £'s from a 16 hour days pay down at the gibson factory workhouse, making guitars for the chinese market, the chinese will be sitting back at their computers thinking to themselves what cheap crap they are being flooded with and pointing to all the imperfections.

    I feel sorry for these chinese factory workers, they must feel like I do when I get called in to fix someone's half completed or delapidated DIY project to their exacting DIY standards. You just never get a quality job done like that and just feel like you are wasting your skills on these people.
    Last edited by ginsambo; 03-21-2013, 04:00 PM.
    You can't really be jealous of something you can't fathom.

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    • Besides the fact that the Chinese knockoffs are illegal, I'm assuming you're refering to the ones that actually say Gibson on them, they are utter pieces of junk! The first time you pick one up in person you'll see why its a $300 guitar. I was walking around at a gun show with a friend once and he spotted a Les Paul one dealer had for sale there. After I told my friend it was a Chinese fake and pointed out some things on it the guy slowly slid it under his display table out of view
      Last edited by roodyrocker; 03-21-2013, 10:26 PM.
      Rudy
      www.metalinc.net

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      • Originally posted by ginsambo View Post
        Break down the price differences - $300 vs $2000...well veneer back and front and copmposite body of dubious wood instead of one piece mahogany with a maple cap, there are loads of dollars right there. Attention to detail, paint. Two piece scarf neck joint as opposed to one piece....etc etc. and the hardware and pups do not even compare. I think if Gibby's were actually made in China, under licence say for the chinese market, they would retail for $1200.
        Well, it all depends on who you get to build your guitar. Here's mine :



        2 piece mahogany body, and yes it has a veneer top. The neck does have a scarf joint, but honestly I believe that's a better construction method, and it certainly makes no difference in playability or tone. I chose to have mine built with an ebony board and the fret-work is damn good, of course the binding is under the frets which is another give away, but once again that makes no real difference.

        The actual quality issues if I wanted to be picky about would be :
        • Body binding is a little sloppy
        • Cheap nut
        • Most assuredly all the hardware is Epiphone
        • The strings it came with suck? lol
        • The case is pretty craptacular


        Unplugged it sounds great too. All in all one could swap out the electronics and hardware and you would be hard pressed to find a real LP that plays and sounds any different. Close your eyes, swap around with a real LP and you cannot tell. Look closer and it won't fool anyone.

        Total cost with shipping and everything was $360 with the ebony board upcharge. You can skirt customs charges by having them put "Replacement, not for resale" on the package. Just don't do it a lot or someone will catch on.





        I feel sorry for these chinese factory workers, they must feel like I do when I get called in to fix someone's half completed or delapidated DIY project to their exacting DIY standards. You just never get a quality job done like that and just feel like you are wasting your skills on these people.
        No need to feel sorry for them, at least in this case the guy (and his workers) who built it for me had been trained by Gibson after the 2010 flood, but then they were all let go soon after. They know what they're doing, and good at working with what they got. Give em top notch woods, hardware, electronics and some machines and watch out. However, I was also told to steer away from any other "replicas" that weren't Gibson-style and they simply are shooting in the dark with those.

        Comment


        • @Evol; That's a damn good copy if it is one!!!
          This is what I think of Gibson since 1993. I HATE BEING LEFT HANDED! I rock out to Baby metal because Wilkinsi said I can't listen to Rick Astley anymore.

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          • Cheap nut = crappy string tone
            I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

            The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

            My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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            • Just to toss in my 2 cents worth. I recently purchased a brand new Gibson Les Paul Studio 50's Tribute with 'buckers. I have always wanted a real Gibson LP (I've owned a lot of Epiphone LP's and even a few lawsuit era Ibanez ones) so I took the plunge. I got one in satin black, looked beautiful, great carve, the body and neck were really well constructed. However from the second I picked it up I thought the frets were garbage (boxy, with sharp edges, lose frets and ridiculously high. They were like speed bumps when I was playing, and that's saying a lot as I have a Jackson with Jumbo frets and an Ibanez with med/ jumbo), and the pick-ups sounded tinny and thin. I talked the guy at the shop into doing a full fret job, and adjusting the pick-ups to try to get it right. I got it back and the guy did a great job of attempting to fix these problems. The Frets were much better, still in the extra jumbo range but not as boxy, and the pick-ups had a slightly richer tone after he fiddled with the poles. I played it for a few weeks, stoked that I had a "real" Gibson in my stable...... I soon realized that I was still Playing my Ibanez RG520QS, the stock pick-ups sounded better to my ears. I swapped out the pick-ups for a JB/ Jazz combo.... pick-up issue gone, but the frets still weren't right. I ended up selling it because it just wasn't worth the hassle or the expense of having the frets ripped out and replaced with vintage frets.

              I went to a different local shop yesterday, and decided I'd check out the Gibsons again..... I played a 2013 Standard, a Studio, and a Traditional.... all of them had the same fret issues. The pick-ups in the standard and the trad were much better.... but the frets were terrible. I scratched the idea of buying a Gibson altogether and walked out happy with the guitars I've got lol.

              In short IMHO newer Gibsons aren't worth the hype, they have some serious QC and pick-up issues. Maybe once they get those fixed I'll think about one again, but until then I'll take MIJ over MIA any day of the week.

              Comment


              • Yeah, I'm not a big fan of boxy/"school bus" fret crowns, but Gibson has done it that way for a long time. Dan Erlewine talks about it specifically in at least one of his books.

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                • BTW, Gibson Pleks most guitars now, so I'd guess boxy frets are likely a design choice. Some like it and some don't. Kind of like the headstock design....not really a quality issue like the OP was trying to say, but rather a design/spec matter.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by toejam View Post
                    That's not balanced well? A body being heavier than a neck is a good thing. If a guitar is neck heavy and all the neck wants to do is dive, that's not a good thing.
                    Once again we're on here arguing about a personal taste issue. I don't like guitars that are body heavy. I personally like the guitar to be a little neck heavy so it counter acts the weight of the body. Now of course just about all guitars are body heavy but not to the degree of these Gibsons I was speaking of. The headstocks were in my face because they were so unbalanced!
                    This is what I think of Gibson since 1993. I HATE BEING LEFT HANDED! I rock out to Baby metal because Wilkinsi said I can't listen to Rick Astley anymore.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lucifarion View Post
                      Just to toss in my 2 cents worth. I recently purchased a brand new Gibson Les Paul Studio 50's Tribute with 'buckers. I have always wanted a real Gibson LP (I've owned a lot of Epiphone LP's and even a few lawsuit era Ibanez ones) so I took the plunge. I got one in satin black, looked beautiful, great carve, the body and neck were really well constructed. However from the second I picked it up I thought the frets were garbage (boxy, with sharp edges, lose frets and ridiculously high. They were like speed bumps when I was playing, and that's saying a lot as I have a Jackson with Jumbo frets and an Ibanez with med/ jumbo), and the pick-ups sounded tinny and thin. I talked the guy at the shop into doing a full fret job, and adjusting the pick-ups to try to get it right. I got it back and the guy did a great job of attempting to fix these problems. The Frets were much better, still in the extra jumbo range but not as boxy, and the pick-ups had a slightly richer tone after he fiddled with the poles. I played it for a few weeks, stoked that I had a "real" Gibson in my stable...... I soon realized that I was still Playing my Ibanez RG520QS, the stock pick-ups sounded better to my ears. I swapped out the pick-ups for a JB/ Jazz combo.... pick-up issue gone, but the frets still weren't right. I ended up selling it because it just wasn't worth the hassle or the expense of having the frets ripped out and replaced with vintage frets.

                      I went to a different local shop yesterday, and decided I'd check out the Gibsons again..... I played a 2013 Standard, a Studio, and a Traditional.... all of them had the same fret issues. The pick-ups in the standard and the trad were much better.... but the frets were terrible. I scratched the idea of buying a Gibson altogether and walked out happy with the guitars I've got lol.

                      In short IMHO newer Gibsons aren't worth the hype, they have some serious QC and pick-up issues. Maybe once they get those fixed I'll think about one again, but until then I'll take MIJ over MIA any day of the week.
                      This is what I've been saying since the thread began!!! And at the price they charge for a guitar any of these issues is a crying shame! Over a new Les Paul hell yes I would take any of my Ibanez guitars or my Kramers or My Jackson!! I've been trying to tell everyone on here that these Quality Control issues are the norm now. It's not a fantasy my friends.
                      This is what I think of Gibson since 1993. I HATE BEING LEFT HANDED! I rock out to Baby metal because Wilkinsi said I can't listen to Rick Astley anymore.

                      Comment


                      • My $.02? May be wasting my time typing this but it's not your opinion that anyone questions, Lefty, it's the anecdotal items you use to support it and the way that you express it. Well aware of your position re: Gibbys. No need to look for like-minded members to support your position. Your opinion is what it is. Now, for the love of tequila, let it go.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by vector View Post
                          My $.02? May be wasting my time typing this but it's not your opinion that anyone questions, Lefty, it's the anecdotal items you use to support it and the way that you express it. Well aware of your position re: Gibbys. No need to look for like-minded members to support your position. Your opinion is what it is. Now, for the love of tequila, let it go.
                          Yeah I should let it go becuase people on here call facts Like Q.C., neck breackage and wildy over priced"Anecdotal."
                          This is what I think of Gibson since 1993. I HATE BEING LEFT HANDED! I rock out to Baby metal because Wilkinsi said I can't listen to Rick Astley anymore.

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                          • Yup. 2 minutes of my life I'll never get back...

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                            • [QUOTE=vector;1561247]Yup. 2 minutes of my life I'll never get back...[/QUOTE I never asked for any minutes of your life. If you don't like the thread don't read it or post on it. It's just that simple.
                              This is what I think of Gibson since 1993. I HATE BEING LEFT HANDED! I rock out to Baby metal because Wilkinsi said I can't listen to Rick Astley anymore.

                              Comment


                              • Long and the short of it is this. I love the way Les Pauls look, would prolly kill for a real '59.... But after months of trying brand new ones there is no reason that they should be as expensive as they are. It's sad that they charge as much as they do... and no boxy frets may not be a QC thing, lose frets are and not only did mine have this issue, three of the 5 Gibson I played yesterday did. Point is.... sadly I've just been seeing and playing import guitars that play better for far less money.... Even sadder is that Fender another US company doesn't have these problems... and they're still a quarter the price of a Les Paul Standard. To top things off look at what Gibson calls innovative and new.... the sherman explorer? At close to $4000 it's a total POS. I don't care who designed or endorsed it... it's fugly. Gibson fans can say what they want, actual players should shy away from these overpriced pieces of garbage... and leave them to the collector and players who `need`a Gibson to be good... Me I`ll be good on a freakin squier affinity strat... so eat a D*ck. Report me if you want, I could really care less.

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