ESP no more?

[Chad]

In my opinion, they have done a great job with the LTD brand. It's clear that it's a branch of ESP, but isn't actually a real deal ESP. Plus, it's a cool name IMO. With that said, I'm don't see why the LTD Elite brand was necessary. E-II was enough.

ESP is the brand that WAS really convoluted. There were so many levels that it was ridiculous. They were running 3 or 4 different custom shops in Japan, had the Standard series, and were doing both Standard Series and Custom Shop versions of signature models. BTW, It is my understanding that they have consolidated all custom shop builds under one roof.

I don't care for the "E-II" name. Very lame. But I'm sure the guitars will still be solid.

Here is my take on the hierarchy from lowest to highest quality:

LTD-> LTD Elite -> E-II -> Custom Shop/Original Series/Navigator. I'm not really sure where Edwards falls anymore.

[chrisolson]

Maybe they could just sell to Lynch, Hetfield, and Hammett.

[Hellbat]

I don't care for the "E-II" name. Very lame. But I'm sure the guitars will still be solid.

I think Telekinesis was too long to fit on the head stocks....

[xenophobe]

ESP is the brand that WAS really convoluted. There were so many levels that it was ridiculous. They were running 3 or 4 different custom shops in Japan, had the Standard series, and were doing both Standard Series and Custom Shop versions of signature models. BTW, It is my understanding that they have consolidated all custom shop builds under one roof.

Well, not as convoluted as Jackson. Most ESP aficionados know about the different custom shops which has never been a problem. It never really mattered which shop you were getting a custom from, they're all high end shops. I find it hard to believe that they're consolidating them though. All of their "custom shops" with the exception of the shop that produces most of the export-only ESP Custom and Signature Series are retail locations. But yeah, having American-destined imports reintroduced there would screw their true customs.

It's not like you can buy a bargain bin factory logo'd ESP for $100 and a custom for $8000. You can with Jackson.

[MetalHeadMat]

I've been told that Edwards was always a tiny bit above LTD. Whether that makes them on par with LTD Elite or below LTD Elite, (but above LTD) I have no idea.

In my opinion, they have done a great job with the LTD brand. It's clear that it's a branch of ESP, but isn't actually a real deal ESP. Plus, it's a cool name IMO. With that said, I'm don't see why the LTD Elite brand was necessary. E-II was enough.

ESP is the brand that WAS really convoluted. There were so many levels that it was ridiculous. They were running 3 or 4 different custom shops in Japan, had the Standard series, and were doing both Standard Series and Custom Shop versions of signature models. BTW, It is my understanding that they have consolidated all custom shop builds under one roof.

I don't care for the "E-II" name. Very lame. But I'm sure the guitars will still be solid.

Here is my take on the hierarchy from lowest to highest quality:

LTD-> LTD Elite -> E-II -> Custom Shop/Original Series/Navigator. I'm not really sure where Edwards falls anymore.

[Chad]

Well, not as convoluted as Jackson. Most ESP aficionados know about the different custom shops which has never been a problem. It never really mattered which shop you were getting a custom from, they're all high end shops. I find it hard to believe that they're consolidating them though. All of their "custom shops" with the exception of the shop that produces most of the export-only ESP Custom and Signature Series are retail locations. But yeah, having American-destined imports reintroduced there would screw their true customs.

It's not like you can buy a bargain bin factory logo'd ESP for $100 and a custom for $8000. You can with Jackson.

True that. I'm a Jackson fan but can hardly make sense of the current lines. I mainly just keep my interest focused on the USA line.

[neilli]

And that for me is the key - for me Jackson is all about the USA stuff, and that's easy to figure out.

[toejam]

I've been told that Edwards was always a tiny bit above LTD. Whether that makes them on par with LTD Elite or below LTD Elite, (but above LTD) I have no idea.

I recall reading that Edwards was a tiny bit above or on the same level as LTD, and the lowest level was GrassRoots. I'm not even sure if they make the GrassRoots line any more.

[MetalHeadMat]

Yes they are! But I found this while searching for GrassRoots on Wikipedia: Grass Roots guitars are aimed at the low cost market, and can be considered as superior to the LTD guitars, but not the 400 series, The Edwards Series or Navigator Series.

I recall reading that Edwards was a tiny bit above or on the same level as LTD, and the lowest level was GrassRoots. I'm not even sure if they make the GrassRoots line any more.

[Flatpicker]

In my opinion, they have done a great job with the LTD brand. It's clear that it's a branch of ESP, but isn't actually a real deal ESP. Plus, it's a cool name IMO. With that said, I'm don't see why the LTD Elite brand was necessary. E-II was enough.

ESP is the brand that WAS really convoluted. There were so many levels that it was ridiculous. They were running 3 or 4 different custom shops in Japan, had the Standard series, and were doing both Standard Series and Custom Shop versions of signature models. BTW, It is my understanding that they have consolidated all custom shop builds under one roof.

I don't care for the "E-II" name. Very lame. But I'm sure the guitars will still be solid.

Here is my take on the hierarchy from lowest to highest quality:

LTD-> LTD Elite -> E-II -> Custom Shop/Original Series/Navigator. I'm not really sure where Edwards falls anymore.

I had figured that Edwards was at the E-II level, but for domestic market only.

[toejam]

Yes they are! But I found this while searching for GrassRoots on Wikipedia: Grass Roots guitars are aimed at the low cost market, and can be considered as superior to the LTD guitars, but not the 400 series, The Edwards Series or Navigator Series.

Interesting. I remember buying some British guitar mag in the mid '90s and seeing some of the Grass Roots models. From what I remember reading on some forums over the years, most people think they suck until they get hardware and pickup swaps but still weren't as good as the lowest LTD line.

[Sephiroth]

They want the ESP label to be top-tier high end.

This right here. They want the ESP brand to be more elusive, exclusive, and expensive.

So they're thinning down what they put that name on to try to make ESP as a brand more valuable; like a Japanese Gibson in terms of the value of a brand name

Besides, isn't the same guy who owns it also the same guy who owns Schecter?

[xenophobe]

If I remember correctly, Edwards is their Japanese market mid line, Navigator is their high end vintage line.

Yeah, the guy who owns ESP owns Schecter, but they're independent companies.