"that guitar ain't got no idea whose name is on the headstock..." Richard Petty

[leftykingv2]

To counter this ....My $225 Agile 2800 LP copy that I have another $300 invested in sounds and plays better than my bud's (pro musician) brand new 2014 $2400 Les Paul traditional.....those were his words as we A/B'd the two side by side. Soooooo total investment of $525 vs $2400 is a winner IMO. PLUS, doing all the work myself to get it to sound and play like it does gave me a much greater understanding of guitars than I had before doing that....

The hell you say?????? A Les Paul being very expensive and not sounding as good as a $225.00 dollar guitar? You sound like a guy I know from this forum but he's a real asshole that NOBODY likes....Who could it be????

[j2379]

Tone is not over rated, some guys like myself dont use any gadgets, except a tuner....and rarely a wah. 99% of the time i plug straight into an amp. years ago, i took my friends POS import strat, shaved & oiled the neck, did a little fret work and a REAL setup, & he said it played better than his CS strat. granted he wouldnt let me mess with his $2500 CS....F'n pussy. personally i thought the CS sounded MUCH better, to me they both played like crap, but im a fender hater.

[vector]

Not surprisingly, this debate has compelling points on both sides of it. j2379 brought up an interesting angle- custom orders. IMO, all things being equal, I don't see a 200 dollar guitar playing as well as one made to your specs. Just not gonna happen unless said $200 guitar happens to have all your specs. An anecdotal example of this are my Hamers, highest quality guitars in almost every regard- I have 6 Cali's, of which two are custom orders, one of them to my specs. The other 4 are Limited Edition models but modded to various degrees to suit my preferences. Of them, my custom ordered Cali is the hands-down best, in almost every category, despite sharing the same builder, a lot of the same features- p'ups, trems frets, wood, etc. It plays and sounds better though, I'll admit it would be difficult to quantify that.

But going full circle to the OP's point (throwing gasoline on the fire)- compare that $3200 custom order to the $400.00 Korean made Cali that had been upgraded with high quality components? Nope. Sorry. No contest. Not even close. Polishing a turd is still a turd, polished.

[Newc]

Regarding the "tone is overrated" comment; eons ago I had a Montoya LP copy. Nothing I did to it could make it sound or play any better than the $50 I paid for it. Ran it through a couple of "big name" pedals - MXR Dist+ and BOSS SuperOD.
A more experienced guitar-playing friend of mine played it one day, ripping out the solo to Diary Of A Madman through my 20w Gorilla amp and pedals. Sounded just like the record.

Then I got serious about learning to play vs crying about not having a killer axe with brand name this and brand name that.


A shitty player can make the best guitar sound like shit, and a great player can make a shit guitar sound like a great guitar.

[artonsafari]

To counter this ....My $225 Agile 2800 LP copy that I have another $300 invested in sounds and plays better than my bud's (pro musician) brand new 2014 $2400 Les Paul traditional.....those were his words as we A/B'd the two side by side. Soooooo total investment of $525 vs $2400 is a winner IMO. PLUS, doing all the work myself to get it to sound and play like it does gave me a much greater understanding of guitars than I had before doing that....

I've heard that the fairly recent Gibson quality has been rivaled by the MIC Epiphone models. Would not surprise me that the Agiles are coming close (or beating US Gibson) as well. I've heard mostly good stuff about them.

[bombtek]

A shitty player can make the best guitar sound like shit, and a great player can make a shit guitar sound like a great guitar.

Yeah, then there's always that, too

[bombtek]

But going full circle to the OP's point (throwing gasoline on the fire)- compare that $3200 custom order to the $400.00 Korean made Cali that had been upgraded with high quality components? Nope. Sorry. No contest. Not even close. Polishing a turd is still a turd, polished.

BUT,
if you swap the stock components to same components as the CS, AND have the know how to make it as good a player (setup to YOUR specs exactly), the only thing making it a turd at that point is how you view it. It obviously wouldn't play, sound or feel like a turd, so what makes it a turd in your opinion? The fact that it doesn't cost as much or have the "prestige" factor of being a CS even though it plays/sounds like it is one?

[Newc]

I'm sitting here next to a KV2T and a bolt-on Vantage Gibson V copy. They're both great guitars.

The Agile 2500GT Goldtop LP copy I had played and sounded (with a pickup swap) as good as my USA Gibson LP Standard.


Like I said, a shit player can make a great guitar sound like shit

[j2379]

to a point, a plywood POS is always going to be a plywood POS. if its got a good neck and fretwork, even a plywood POS can play nice. & im not talking about neck profile or feel, Im talking about a solid working truss rod, and a decent chunk of wood thats stable. but a lot of it is because of guitar snobs, I know my vintage junky friends, laugh when i tell them i think PRS SE's, smoke 90% of the USA gibsons. the fret work on the SEs, are far superior IMO to non CS gibsons....they play great sound great but they arent made in the US and arent expensive so the snobs turn their noses. They would rather pay $2+G for shitty gibsons, and fenders so they can feel ok when they jam with friends. I had many funny experiences like that when i was doing blues jazz shit with a BCRiches and jacksons, until they played the damn things. one jackass even said my eagle sounded better than his LP....wish i had that on tape.

[bombtek]

^
Yup
There's only a few things needed for a guitar to be great, and they don't need to add up to thousands of dollars to get there.

A good solid wood body
a good neck that you make great yourself or by sending it to someone to do it
a good full set of electronics and components
a good set of tuners
a good set of hardware
For the most part, ANY guitar in the $250 +- $100 used price range or $400 +- $100new price range will provide you with the first two needed items. A lot of times they can be had for a lot less if you're REALLY looking.
Put them all together correctly and set the end product up (or have it set up) correctly to exacting specs and what you have is an OUTSTANDING guitar....that will be pssshawd at by most gear snobs. There are a ton of guitars out there like this where if there were some way to truly do a blind test, most gear snobs out there would have NO idea they were playing a sub $1000 (most well under) instrument and would value it way higher until they found out the make and model of it.
As the thread title states...that-guitar-ain-t-got-no-idea-whose-name-is-on-the-headstock.

[bombtek]

Remember back in the late 90's-early 2000's when the Charvel Model series guitars were being sold on eBay for stoopid low money?
Model1's...hardly EVER breaking the $150 mark
Model2's...NEVER getting over $200
Model3's...MIGHT get over $200...if Kahlered you're closer to $125
Model4's...$200-225
Model5's (all variants)...$250-300..less if Kahlered
Model6's...$250-$350...less if Kahlered
These were all great guitars to start with. Modded and massaged to your specs/preferences they could and can rival any guitar out there CS or whatever.
There are still guitars out there WELL within those price ranges (and well under) that can be made to play and sound as good as any CS guitar out there with a little more invested in them.

[Chad]

I have had very expensive guitars. I have had very cheap guitars. I'll beat the same drum I always beat: a good guitar is a good guitar and they have to be judged one-by-one. Granted, a guitar's chassis has to be structurally sound (wood not warped, doesn't have major routing or construction issues, etc), but beyond that it doesn't really matter. Hardware & electronics can be upgraded if needed. Fret & nut work can be improved upon. Whether a guitar's specs work for you or not....just means that.....it is no reflection of quality.

Pros have made use of very cheap instruments: Jimmy Page, Tom Morello, Jack White, etc.

[vector]

A shitty player can make the best guitar sound like shit, and a great player can make a shit guitar sound like a great guitar.

Maybe true but it's a LOT easier to make a great guitar sound great than to make a shitty guitar sounds great...

Fact is, most of us don't possess the skill/talent that the greats of the world have or else we'd be playing guitar for a living instead of sitting on here speculating. This is less about the name on a guitar and more about the quality of the components and the workmanship that goes into it. In this world, 9 times outta 10, ya gotta pay more for that stuff.

[bombtek]

In this world, 9 times outta 10, ya gotta pay more for that stuff.

Not if you're willing to take the time and MAKE the so called "shittier" guitars up to snuff.

[bombtek]

I take that back..
You don't have to spend CS PRICES to have a guitar with CS playability/sound.

In then end those prices really are because of the name on that headstock.