"that guitar ain't got no idea whose name is on the headstock..." Richard Petty

[bombtek]

One of the BEST things I like about cheap guitars (after they've been made into kickass players)......the modding/learning platform you now have in your hands.
I know that I for one would most definitely feel a bit sketchy about taking a soldering iron anywhere near a CS.
Wanna try and see if a Bournes pot produces a different tone than CTS pot does...spend the few dollars for one and swap it out on your guitar.
Wanna change your guitar's color?...head on down to Wal-mart and grab a can or two of Krylon rattlers.
Not only can the cheapies be MADE into great players, the cheapies are FUN to work on/change up and you can do it with no remorse because they're so damn cheap.

[vector]

One of the BEST things I like about cheap guitars (after they've been made into kickass players)......the modding/learning platform you now have in your hands.
I know that I for one would most definitely feel a bit sketchy about taking a soldering iron anywhere near a CS.
Wanna try and see if a Bournes pot produces a different tone than CTS pot does...spend the few dollars for one and swap it out on your guitar.
Wanna change your guitar's color?...head on down to Wal-mart and grab a can or two of Krylon rattlers.
Not only can the cheapies be MADE into great players, the cheapies are FUN to work on/change up and you can do it with no remorse because they're so damn cheap.

LOL. Seems we buy guitars for different reasons- I buy 'em to play 'em, not to experiment on, with the expectation being that they perform well enough to help me accomplish whatever musical goal I have set. Therein lies another point to consider: some folks out there don't want to have to tinker and tweak and upgrade. They wanna plug in and play. I get that.

But your point is valid- a cheapo guitar is a GREAT platform for trying out new electronics, paint and whatnot. They're also great for trying your hand at DIY luthiery, like fret dressing or even refretting. But I'm mindful of the fact that if you can only afford a mid-line import or used USA, chances are good you won't want to fuck with that either. I've swapped out the pickups in my CS Star and I was more nervous than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I'm poised to do it again. Likely, I developed the confidence to undertake it from changing p'ups in an Epiphone or a low cost MIK Dean or whatever.

[bombtek]

Yeah, that is one thing.....I LOVE tearing these things apart and doing stuff to them....if it has a pickguard that's even better cuz then my route by chisel approach doesn't really matter . I just can't see myself taking a router to a CS much less a chisel.

[bombtek]

That, by the way, is usually how I determine if a guitar body is plywood or solid wood....if the chisel has a hard time of it, it's ply

[pianoguyy]

We also need to determine what is a guitar and what is a toy that looks like a guitar. Also, what is cheap and what is expensive.
I make fun of Fender Start-o-caster and Samick Guitars a lot. But face it, those are not guitars.
The $2000 I paid in the 80's is $4500 today with inflation. Most non musicians, even some musicians, look at me like I am nuts for spending that. But you can also go buy a $20,000 Martin. Big difference than a $200 Ibanez.

[Chad]

The crux of this thread is that you CAN MAKE a $200-$800 guitar into a CS level player either yourself or by taking it to someone that does it exactly the way you want it.
So no...the name on the headstock doesn't matter one iota.

Right on, man! I was just playing my MIK Schecter C-1 FR. I think it mapped for $849 or $899 and I bought it new for about $600. Looks great, plays great, sounds great....just an excellent guitar. And I did nothing but a pickup swap and that was just personal preference (it came with SD Invaders and I swapped for an EMG 81/85 set). I get just as much enjoyment as when I play my USA Jacksons or Ibanez JEM. Yeah, there are a couple VERY minor things that aren't perfection, but they are only visible when viewing the guitar under a magnifying glass as an art piece. As a functional instrument, it is 100%!

[vector]

Mmm hmm. I'd love to see how everyone in the you-can-make-a-$400-beater-into-a-good-as-a- $2000-player-category reacts if you were given your choice between a custom shop or high end, name on the head stock, with your specs and a 400 dollar new import or used mid-line.

My money's on you plowing your grandmothers over to get that snazzy custom or high end ax.

[bombtek]

Mmm hmm. I'd love to see how everyone in the you-can-make-a-$400-beater-into-a-good-as-a- $2000-player-category reacts if you were given your choice between a custom shop or high end, name on the head stock, with your specs and a 400 dollar new import or used mid-line.

My money's on you plowing your grandmothers over to get that snazzy custom or high end ax.

Of course!

but then again I will take ANY guitar if you're gonna give it to me for free. When it comes to buying a guitar, a LOT of things come into play. Do I want a decent guitar that I will want to work/experiment on? Do I want a guitar that I want to admire it just as much as I will want to play it? Do I want a guitar that I just want as a good player as it is with minimal effort put into it....there's loads of questions that need to be answered on my head before I buy one. I pretty much have every type of guitar (answering those questions) that I want/need. I can afford a CS at this point in my life and the local Guitar Center has let me take a few CS pieces home for a few days for trials....but honestly, none of those CS guitars spoke to me enough for me to buy one....yeah I've thought about placing an order for my OWN CS to my specs....but the guitars that I have more than fit the bill, and there's no real reason for me to get a CS other than the reason of saying "I have a CS". The guitars that I have that play as well as those CS guitars that Guitar Center let me try are good enough for me...hell I'm not a good enough player to truly appreciate them
Every one of those guitars IS technically a custom...each and every one of them has been customized/modded by me. And not to toot my own horn, but really...I did a damn fine job on customizing them for functionality ...if not the prettiest ..Tell me where else you can find a P90 neck, single coil middle, humbucker bridge,bournes pots, heavy gauge wiring, locking tuner, roller bridge, brass nut sanded/oiled neck that's had its frets dressed and polished and the board edges rolled guitar that is set up to play OUTRAGEOUSLY well for less than $500 total? Because that is the type of things I'm talking about ..in total I have less than $350 in this guitar and it is an UNREAL player.
It started its life as an '01 Squier Standard, but it is FAR from that. I can only imagine what a CS equivelant would cost and after playing those CS guitars for a few days, I can attest that they don't really play any better.

[vector]

But if all things are equal, you'd take the custom or higher end over the mid line or import, right? That's what I thought.

Actually, you're preaching to the choir as far as modding or upgrading guitars go. There is not one single electric guitar in my house that HASN'T been modded or upgraded. Not one. My Charvel CS Star? Yup. Modded. My Hamer custom order? Modded. The CS Gibson Axcess? Modded. The Hamer custom order Cali and Vector that were someone else's orders (i.e. used)? Modded. BIG time. Until that day when I remember to order every little detail, I'll likely mod the next one, which is my Jackson CS Star, due in March, if all goes well. If I recall (it WAS almost 2 years ago) correctly, I went so far as to ask Matt for the big block routing in the trem cavity, the big block on the trem, the trem set up with my standard two spring config., the tuning at D# standard and Schaller strap locks installed. This varies from my Charvel Star in that I had to add those all on after the fact.

But truthfully if I'm gonna make changes I'd still prefer to make them on a better platform. You show me one person out there that prefers shitty cheap woods and adequate construction over grade A wood and higher caliber craftsman ship and I'll show you a deranged person.

[pianoguyy]

but, as I have said before...

buy the $400 guitar. Put $400 worth of work into it. Is it now as good as the $800 unit.
I don't mean - is it customized to your preferences. Is it as good as.

And then, if it is as nice as the more expensive one, why would you buy the cheap one and work on it if you can just buy the better one.
I can buy a Honda Civic and put a Porsche engine in it. It isn't a Porsche. And for the time and money, why wouldn't I just buy the damn Porsche.

[bombtek]

I've come to the conclusion that any of you that disagree with my points of view....which are all much more valid than yours...you are all wrong and completely delusional in your thinking

[RR2772]

The ultimate hunt for getting a great sounding guitar?

Its not my skills but my guitar! Ehmmmm right. From experience and that one has been going on since 1988 for guitars. By 1991 I got into electric guitars and saved up for one which became an Applause Strat in black based on the fact a school mate had a white one that I was not allowed to touch and not looking bad at the time + I was not any aware of anything guitar wise. I knew what sounds I liked and spend the next many years searching for the right combinations of guitar, effects and amps to feel right.

Somehow I could never get satisfied with any gear bought in my local music store with fair selection but not great all though you could order catalog based stuff.

I had Ibanez V, Gibson Les Paul studio, Explorer and ESP KH2 in that order and the guitars were fine to a point. Little things lead to the next guitar and due to having the ESP and Explorer at the same time made the interest go in both of them besides lack of payment on the ESP.

Then around 1995 I got an offer for a trade for a home built Strat with a real Fender US Clapton maple neck and Schecter Ash body ('80s I think) for my Explorer and after some thinking went and got it. Real US neck was the draw here and the comment of he always got good response on the sound of the guitar? I did not notice it at that point.

As far as playing it was always a struggle somehow so by 1996 I put the order in for an Jackson original Rhoads RR2772.

With more money comming in I got 2 other Strats and a Gibson Les Paul custom Historic 1957 but ended up selling them and by now still not missing them.

Why did I keep the home built strat? Home build so not worth that much! I upgraded it twice and by 2000 it had the configuration I wanted and it is still like that. But what happend was me starting to learn how to play it and get used to it. Now it feels like home and has been for years. It feels right and sounds? Yes I notice it sounds great sometimes more than my Jackson CS that is still stock.

The only thing is to say that I agree with the point it is YOU that make it sound the way it does but you have to feel right with it regardless of what the brand is. I have spend quite some time playing a Fender Strat mexico '74 reissue like Blackmores Califonia Jam one. I found the pickups weak but other than that nice but as for buying I have a hard time finding the reasons to look for a guitar these days. Will it let me play better? No practise will!

I still got my old Jasmine S60 acustic from 1988. As I can play it now it sounds good despite the years and my habit of hardly ever changing the strings on it. Go figure!

[MetalHeadMat]

What does he know? He's a NASCAR driver!

[bombtek]

He knows that guitar doesn't have any idea whose name is on the headstock because...well because its an inanimate object

[vector]

Yeah 'cuz Richard Petty is the FIRST guy I'd go to for advice on guitars and guitar playing. I'd certainly hope ol' Petty could figure out that a guitar doesn't have the capacity to know what name is on it.