"that guitar ain't got no idea whose name is on the headstock..." Richard Petty

[vector]

I take that back..
You don't have to spend CS PRICES to have a guitar with CS playability/sound.
In then end those prices really are because of the name on that headstock.

Nope. Not buying it- I've spec-ed out several custom orders from guys that are NOT in the big leagues and frankly are barely on the radar. Prices for a hand-made custom guitar, using high quality components are gonna cost as much regardless. Case in point- my co-guitarist and good friend ordered a totally custom spec-ed guitar from a builder most everyone on here has likely NEVER heard of. They worked together to hand select the hunk of mahogany and maple pieces, then acquired the components and this guy did a killer job building it. Top notch all over. Still ran him 3 +grand. But you won't find a comparable guitar for less than 2 G's.

Ironically, this is the same friend who has been playing a MIK LTD LP copy, an EC-300 or something like that. He had it set up perfectly and put upgraded Seymour p'ups in it. However, recently he took out the p'ups and sold it for, what else, a 2014 Gibby Les Paul Traditional, citing the LTD neck's instability and tuning issues as problematic. Yeah, I admit- anecdotal evidence but it underscores my point which is: more often than not, ya get what ya pay for.

[bombtek]

I'm willing to bet had he upgraded all components that could cause neck instability/tuning issues, he'd still have that guitar. .....unless he was just WANTING to buy the Gibson.
and
My point was that you CAN make a very mediocre guitar into a one that rivals a CS in terms of playability/sound. It's not all that difficult to do IF you want to put the time and energy into it. NOT that you can order a guitar custom to your specs from any builder whoever they may be and expect to not pay through the nose for something that he could've had (a guitar with CS playability/sound) for WAAAAAY less $.
No matter how you argue your points with me on this you're not going to be able to convince me otherwise because what I speak is TRUTH!!

[j2379]

yes there is also the other side of that, I have a musikraft mutt. probably $400-500 in parts, and if not for the rattle can paint job its as good as my wayne. but there is no doubt someone spent the time to do a real nice level crown and polish, dressed the edges all nice and it sets up nice and plays perfectly. not sure if it exist anymore but back in the day you could get nice custom spec'd necks for like $200-250.

[bombtek]

Oh and by the way ...my exorbitant overuse of caps only serves to prove I speak only the TRUTH!!!!

[LaoWai]

I’m not a gear snob, if all you can afford is a $300 guitar and a bit of sweat equity, then it is was it is, plug it in and jam… we’ve all been there.

I like to think there’s a range where you get the best bang for the buck. pay less and you don’t get the better features (I.e. neck thru),
materials and workmanship.

The other extreme, well I guess I can’t comment, but I wonder how much better a CS can really play over.. say a SL2H .
It seems at some point, you’re paying more for appearance (read custom graphic) rather than playability.
(not that there’s anything wrong with that)

IMHO the best bang for the buck range is around $800 on the used market

[Chad]

Yeah, I admit- anecdotal evidence but it underscores my point which is: more often than not, ya get what ya pay for.

There is indeed a critical mass to reach to get a certain level of quality. Thing is, with the quality imports made today that falls in the $200+ range when buying used. And $300 to $400 MAP for a new guitar. Some of my favorite guitars were in the $250 to $400 range bought brand new, on sale. My main gigging guitar MAP's for $499, but I caught it on sale at Amazon for $250. I didn't change one thing except string gauge on the guitar. It sounds good, plays good, and I get as much joy as with other way more expensive guitars I've owned over the years: PRS USA, various USA Jacksons, various USA Hamers, Gibson Historic, Ibanez MIJ, ESP MIJ, etc.

Point being: yeah, if you buy a brand new $100 MAP guitar....you're probably pushing things too far and quality will likely be low. But bump that expenditure just a few hundred more $ and you can have something that can rival multi-thousand $ guitars IMO. It doesn't matter where or how a guitar was made, nor does it matter what it costs.....a good guitar is a good guitar.

[vector]

This will come off as cork sniffery but when I took my USA Hamers (including the custom ordered one) to a well regarded luthier sometime ago, he just ooh-ed and ahh-ed at the superb quality of the materials and the level of craftsmanship. Ironically, I had my 4 grand CS LP Axcess with me as well. That got some compliments on it's looks and the different radius but when we started to peel away the layers so to speak, it was revealed to be pretty crappily made. So, yeah, spending 4+ grand on an ax does NOT guarantee you a more superb playing/sounding/built guitar. But in the case of the Hamers? It's hard to refute the quality of the materials, the thicker slab of prime ebony for the finger boards, the excellent grade maple the neck was fashioned out of , and lastly the craftsmanship that a hand built ax can feature.

What does all that mean to me? That translates to a fucking kick ass playing, looking and sounding ax. Could I find that in a 200- 800 dollar no-name guitar? No. That IS the crux of this thread if I've read it correctly. Name on the head stock doesn't matter? Right?

[BlackRR]

Part of the problem with this type of comparison is that the expensive guitars are all made in country's which have higher manufacturing cost's and if those imports were subject to those same cost's they would never be sold at those low prices. While I agree that you don't have to spend a fortune on a guitar I also don't believe that you can buy a guitar new for $400 that will be as good as one that is around $1000 , the better components just cost more money no matter where the guitar is manufactured and part of the playability and sound is in the components themselves.

[Chad]

This will come off as cork sniffery but when I took my USA Hamers (including the custom ordered one) to a well regarded luthier sometime ago, he just ooh-ed and ahh-ed at the superb quality of the materials and the level of craftsmanship. Ironically, I had my 4 grand CS LP Axcess with me as well. That got some compliments on it's looks and the different radius but when we started to peel away the layers so to speak, it was revealed to be pretty crappily made. So, yeah, spending 4+ grand on an ax does NOT guarantee you a more superb playing/sounding/built guitar. But in the case of the Hamers? It's hard to refute the quality of the materials, the thicker slab of prime ebony for the finger boards, the excellent grade maple the neck was fashioned out of , and lastly the craftsmanship that a hand built ax can feature.

What does all that mean to me? That translates to a fucking kick ass playing, looking and sounding ax. Could I find that in a 200- 800 dollar no-name guitar? No. That IS the crux of this thread if I've read it correctly. Name on the head stock doesn't matter? Right?

I still love expensive guitars too. I love guitars in general. As art pieces as much as I love playing them. So I can appreciate the craftsmanship and perfection of some of the high dollar examples. But you're right. It's pretty much cork sniffery. When it comes down to playing and making music, it doesn't really matter how thick an ebony board is, how pretty the maple used for the neck is, how many pieces of wood were used for the body, absolutely flawless paint job, what name is on the headstock, etc.

[Chad]

Part of the problem with this type of comparison is that the expensive guitars are all made in country's which have higher manufacturing cost's and if those imports were subject to those same cost's they would never be sold at those low prices. While I agree that you don't have to spend a fortune on a guitar I also don't believe that you can buy a guitar new for $400 that will be as good as one that is around $1000 , the better components just cost more money no matter where the guitar is manufactured and part of the playability and sound is in the components themselves.

There are MAP $500 guitars (that can usually be negotiated down or bought on sale for $400 or less) that come with quality pickups and hardware. The $250 guitar I mentioned above came with EMG 81/85 pickups, Tusq nut, Grover tuners, quality bridge, etc. It's a great guitar.

[vector]

There are MAP $500 guitars (that can usually be negotiated down or bought on sale for $400 or less) that come with quality pickups and hardware. The $250 guitar I mentioned above came with EMG 81/85 pickups, Tusq nut, Grover tuners, quality bridge, etc. It's a great guitar.

I might be inclined to give that position more consideration were it not for my own considerable experiences in the last 30+ years. Ya see, I could never afford any of the new, high end guitars for the better part of my adult life. I had to go used USA or import. And I bought a bunch over the years- Fender, Gibson, BC Rich, Charvel, Jackson, Schecter, Ibanez, Washburn, Hamer, Kramer, and Dean. But I tried out the higher end stuff at every chance I got. Music stores in the region started to really dislike me - So, while I wasn't able to own any of higher quality axes, I got to compare them in the stores, against the imports or the well-used mid-line USA's I could afford. Then I started be able to afford whatever I wanted. I could buy whatever price point I wanted and what did I do? I still bought used mid-line USA's and imports and dropped 400- 600 bucks on upgrades, not including paint jobs. They were better and I started thinking that's the best I can get. Wasn't until I bought my first custom shop Charvel that I discovered what a radical difference FOR ME a guitar like that could make. Playability, sound, materials, looks- everything. So, I started acquiring better guitars and ended up ordering my first TRUE custom shop Charvel- every spec was mine. It is, hands-down, one of the best playing/feeling, sounding looking axes I own to this day. The only guitar that could rival it is my custom ordered Hamer. I'm not sure what the difference is- better craftsmanship? Better materials? Perhaps it's psychosomatic- the power of suggestion and all that, but the customs have mojo that cannot be duplicated in MY experiences. So, while I have to grudgingly acquiesce to your differing opinion, I can say that, for me, that name on the head stock and the bigger bucks I dropped on them DO make a big difference.

[pianoguyy]

The sweetest guitar I ever played was not a cheap one.

And it is still alive and kicking 30 years later... Suck on that, cheap guitars!

[diablomozart]

i'd rather have a beat to shit mij ibanez rg than a 23 fret kelly...lol..uncalled for but i had to...

while i can't extol upon the virtues of an agile i can say this...back in the late 80's ibanez made a helluva guitar for about 600 bucks...solid components and very good playability...equivalent to a custom shop jackson?...no...but still some of them played better than some of the jacksons i owned at the time too...what i'm finding funny about this conversation is people comparing 200 dollar guitars to 2000 dollar guitars...while it's true you do get what you pay for the range here is really comparing apples to oranges...so a couple of points

a made in china squier may be ok...but it won't last 30+ years in that same state...why?...quality of wood and materials used...

as referenced by people earlier in the thread...a plywood guitar will always be a plywood guitar...

that being said...the lower end guitars these days certainly play much nicer than the cheapies back when i started playing (in the stone ages if you must know)

but i do believe once you get to the 6-800 dollar range...decent materials should have been used and it should be a very workable instrument for a long time...

the name on the headstock...yes it means something...it's a reference to the builder and their reputation...gibson's recent reputation has pretty much gone down the tubes from poor quality control (some of the newer custom shop jacksons have had similar issues) while other companies like prs or hamer always managed to maintain a great reputation...hence their values remain high (why gibson's remain high with issues is another subject altogether)

in the end though...if you get a guitar you're happy with and it's made decently it should serve you well for years...but whether it's a 200 dollar guitar or a 2000 dollar one...it's still up to the player to make it sound good...lol...d.m.

[P I K A]

Don't forget about warranties. Suhr has a lifetime warranty on their guitars ,try to find that on a 200 piece of wood. I defended cheap guitars until I bought a Suhr. Basic guitar no fancy stuff ,was cheaper then an sl2h new and its the best guitar in terms of craftmanship and playability that I ever owned. If you are buying to keep a long time I think you need a quality axe that wont break down on you .

[bombtek]

What does all that mean to me? That translates to a fucking kick ass playing, looking and sounding ax. Could I find that in a 200- 800 dollar no-name guitar? No. That IS the crux of this thread if I've read it correctly. Name on the head stock doesn't matter? Right?

Sure you can...ok maybe not FIND it...but you can without a doubt massage a no-name or "crap name" brand guitar into an instrument that does easily cover those three criteria "a fucking kick ass playing, looking and sounding ax". I've done it on more than one occasion.
I know there's no way that I would be able to change your mind on it regarding your CS Carvin...because that is the way YOU feel about it. I have the same (somewhat) feelings regarding the way my Jap Fender Limited Edition FEELS. You literally can feel the quality difference in it between it and most of my other guitars just by putting your hands on it. It feels like it was made with tighter tolerances on the full spectrum of its build.
BUT
My other guitars play and sound just as good ..some better...than that guitar and they cost a LOT less.
The crux of this thread is that you CAN MAKE a $200-$800 guitar into a CS level player either yourself or by taking it to someone that does it exactly the way you want it.
So no...the name on the headstock doesn't matter one iota.