Drunken Credit Card China shopping.....

[Model1VH2]

Funny that you should mention that.
The subject matter was actually part of the post that I decided to erase.


I can 100% guarantee that there are some 'legitimate' knockoffs. Meaning, they are built by the same people with the same materials in the same factory to the same specs. Maybe they were made by a guy off the clock. Maybe they were 'defects' that were sent to the trash but never made it there. Any number of scenarios. Who amongst us has never taken anything from their place of business, even if just a pen or using their pc and internet to do your taxes.
The difference is where the money goes. If Gibson built for it, but Long WO steals it and sells it, it is a black market item. Maybe not a knockoff, but it has lost its legitimacy. --- A stolen Van Gogh is still a Van Gogh, right? Essentially, the 'real' ones are stolen property.

Legitimate illegitimate guitars are far a few between. Simply because of volume. Even physical size makes it hard to steal.
The company that churns out millions of iphones can justify a hundred thousand being missing. On the other hand, the guitar maker that makes ten thousand...
The employees that make iphones can slip one in their pocket unnoticed. Is that a guitar in your pocket or are you happy to see me.


And then you have the 'knockoffs' that are trademark issues. Where a chinese company can legally make products with the D'addario label even though they are not associated with D'addario in any way. Whether they are high quality or not, they are legally permitted.



Without hijacking the thread and repeating what has been discussed many times...
There are any number of possibilities. Good stuff. Cheap stuff. Stolen stuff.
I even know a guy that sells fakes. His sales pitch is 'its a fake, but it is a very good fake'. And that allows him to sell his $100 Alibaba guitar for $500. Its a far cry from the $3000 unit, but he was honest 'it was a fake'.

With the volume of fakes being produced and all of the various websites, I seriously doubt these are "stolen" guitars, guitars taken from the trash, or the result of a few Epiphone employees "moonlighting". Based on their operation, I'm lead to believe these are legit businesses and it would not surprise me if the more reputable factories were being utilized for production.

Like I said in the other thread... Fuck these Chinese guitars. When someone here gets burned, everyone will change their tune.

Coincidentally, I received a call today from a friend who said he just purchased a Jackson.
He asked if he could bring it by for a setup and said the frets needed to be dressed.
When he arrived with his guitar, I couldn't help but notice the sticker on the back of the headstock.

[VoiceX3]

Like I said in the other thread... Fuck these Chinese guitars. When someone here gets burned, everyone will change their tune.

Not to sound like a smart ass, but have you looked at the pictures of the 2 I bought? Anyone getting burned thinking these are real need their vision checked. These are OBVIOUSLY not real. They are also obviously not $3000 guitars.

[Nightbat]

Like I said in the other thread... Fuck these Chinese guitars. When someone here gets burned, everyone will change their tune.

Yeah, a 23 fret or botched P'up routing $3K Jackson CS is a clear sign of "getting what you pay for" and certainly made everyone stop buying them

[pianoguyy]

With the volume of fakes being produced and all of the various websites, I seriously doubt these are "stolen" guitars, guitars taken from the trash, or the result of a few Epiphone employees "moonlighting". Based on their operation, I'm lead to believe these are legit businesses and it would not surprise me if the more reputable factories were being utilized for production.

There are absolutely too many to be the situation I described. There's also too many to be a situation where the factory makes for Ibanez from 9am-5pm and then the rest of the day the entire factory makes them off the clock.
Some of the 'fakes' are so real looking because they are real. It has to be mentioned, particularly when someone says 'there are rumors about where these come from'.

But I totally agree with you. The simple of volume of fakes means that the chances of getting a 'real' one are minimal.

[VoiceX3]

The dealer I dealt with actually said to me that the employees of the factory that build these worked for a factory that produced Ibanez, Dean, BC Rich, Jackson and Epiphones among others. I have pictures from the paint process that show racks of guitars being built, some in bulk, and others as one offs like the Kelly I got.

[Model1VH2]

The dealer I dealt with actually said to me that the employees of the factory that build these worked for a factory that produced Ibanez, Dean, BC Rich, Jackson and Epiphones among others. I have pictures from the paint process that show racks of guitars being built, some in bulk, and others as one offs like the Kelly I got.

Makes perfect sense to me.
The difference in build quality and accuracy in these replica guitars vary so much that I have to believe that there are several factorys though. There are a lot of different websites and prices vary quite a bit as well. I'm sure there are a fair share of scam sites as well but that happens here in the US and everywhere else in the world as well. I dealt through one of the websites that were more expensive. They just seemed to have more accurate replicas and they were very responsive to emails which put me more at ease when it came time to order my guitar.

[VoiceX3]

I don't want to break any forum rules so I haven't posted which site mine came from, but I did my homework before I orderred. I know which site yours came from and that site and the seller I bought from had the best reputations. I did a search both on the web and on YouTube for detailed reviews and that's how I chose my seller. I have seen some horrible ones too, actually some of the videos are downright hilarious. Just make sure if you order from one of these places that your payment goes into escrow until you receive the item and confirm good delivery and that the product is as advertised.

[sully]

Was browsing their site and saw the Robbin guitars and saw this pic:



I built that very body for someone who wound up having it painted in a Robbin theme. I'm friends on fb with the person who has it now (and took that picture) and the other pix of the guitar have the same background.

[z1n]

So when did you start working for rare electric guitars? :P

[sully]

Wondering that myself!

[VoiceX3]

I've seen stuff like that on that site and others, but most of the stuff from that site has been reviewed to be pretty accurate as far as build aside from hardware and pickups. I went with the one I went with based on videos from this guy "China Guitar Skeptic" and his reviews.

[toejam]

Was browsing their site and saw the Robbin guitars and saw this pic:



I built that very body for someone who wound up having it painted in a Robbin theme. I'm friends on fb with the person who has it now (and took that picture) and the other pix of the guitar have the same background.

My avast web shield is coming up and saying that a threat has been detected on that site, so I can't see the pic.

[z1n]

gawd they even watermarked it

[Model1VH2]

Was browsing their site and saw the Robbin guitars and saw this pic:



I built that very body for someone who wound up having it painted in a Robbin theme. I'm friends on fb with the person who has it now (and took that picture) and the other pix of the guitar have the same background.

Well, that explains why a lot of the guitars on that site look so good.
Like Voice3X, I also did some searches on YouTube and came across a couple videos that encouraged me to order one.
Would I have rather ordered one from Sully? ABSOLUTELY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLpFXJLHjSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SSiQMpl_n0

[VoiceX3]

Would I have rather ordered one from Sully? ABSOLUTELY

+1

A true Sully would be way more than these......with good reason too.