Ngd rare find

[Jackson8090s]

1982 Dean Baby Z USA w/ OHSC ... Ebony fretboard , MOP Block inlays, Cadillac binding body and headstock, Kahler USA Tremolo , Schaller tuning machines made in W. Germany . Price $1,000.00

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[asix]

Cute is the wrong word for it sweet that's closer. i really like a smaller body so that defo appeals to be and that its very different.

[lepard]

Holy shit ! That's the earliest Kahler'd guitar I've ever seen. "Pat's Applied For" Kahlers are generally thought to be from 1983. That's a really late 1982 serial number. I own vintagedeanguitars.com and have never seen a 1982 with a factory Kahler.

[Jackson8090s]

Holy shit ! That's the earliest Kahler'd guitar I've ever seen. "Pat's Applied For" Kahlers are generally thought to be from 1983. That's a really late 1982 serial number. I own vintagedeanguitars.com and have never seen a 1982 with a factory Kahler.

I was researching this guitar last night , found your site , very interesting, I'm still researching, but I'm on my weekend night shifts... Appreciate any info you could provide. Those are crappy iPhone pics, when I'm off I'll get some better pictures with camera

[lepard]

I was researching this guitar last night , found your site , very interesting, I'm still researching, but I'm on my weekend night shifts... Appreciate any info you could provide. Those are crappy iPhone pics, when I'm off I'll get some better pictures with camera

Looks all original to me other than the bridge pickup.

[Jackson8090s]

Sorry, I do not have any further information on this guitar. We took the company over in 1998 and our records do not go back that far.
Looks to be in great shape.

Just by looking at it, these are the specs I see.
Model Name: USA Dean Baby Z
Item Number Sku: us8200583 <---- lol he got it wrong too, glad I'm not the only blind person. 82 05583 is correct
Trans Cherry burst
Country of Origin: USA
Dexterity: Right Handed
Construction: Set Neck
Body Material: Mahogany
Binding: multi ply
Neck Material: Mahogany
Fretboard Material: Ebony
Inlays: Pearl Block
Scale Length: 24 3/4" (629mm)
Frets: 22 Medium
Fretboard Radius: 12" (305mm)
Neck Shape: C
Nut Width: 1 11/16" (43mm)
Controls: 1 vol 1 tone 3 way toggle
Hardware Color: Gold
Tuners: Schaller
Knobs: Speed Gold
Strings: D'Addario EXL120 (.009-.042)

Lepard, some of forum members from the Dean site think the Kahler was added later that it is not factory or even option for 82, however knowing some of the V's and Z's and ML's from that time came with Kahlers as options , wondering if there is anyway to prove it? I know the REAL Dean has a new guitar company, thiking on taking the chance and see if we can get in touch with the man himself. He'd have to have been part of the decision making process to add that to what many think was only a hardtail. I also know NOT many were made with that binding. Another forum user also noted a few yrs back seeing one sell for 600 bucks.... this guy is asking 1,000 .... you have a ball park on value?

[lepard]

First of all, forget the Dean Forum. The people there are mostly immature kids who are clueless. They have no clue what they are talking about and constantly give bad advice. That Kahler is factory original, I guarantee it. It has the "Pat's Appl'd For" stamp on it that was only on Kahlers made in the first year of production. Pretty much all "Pat's Appl'd For" Kahlers are from 1983. Your serial number is a very late 1982 number. Very few USA Baby guitars are that fancy. Most are fairly plain like the one I'm posting below. I'd be willing to bet that guitar was built for NAMM 1983 or for a Dean artist. I am very familiar with the construction of these guitars and that one is all original other than the bridge pickup. Almost all the fancy Baby Series guitars you see with gold hardware and Kahlers were actually made by ESP in Japan. They do not have "Made in USA" on the back of the headstock and have serial numbers that start with a "41". None of those have the big V headstock. They have the smaller "shrimpfork" headstock. Even Dean USA started using the shrimpfork headstock in 1983, especially on Kahler'd guitars. Series III V-headstock USA guitars with a factory Kahler are very rare.

Here are a couple early 1983 Deans of mine with factory "Pat's Appl'd For" Kahlers. First is a 1983 Dean Baby Z, serial number 83 6044.



And here's a 1983 Dean E'Lite, serial number 83 6031.



As for a value on the one you're looking at, that's kind of hard to do. Baby Series guitars are kind of misunderstood and people mix up the Japanese ones with the USA ones. Even the real USA ones aren't worth that much but have been going up in value recently. As fancy as that on is, I'd say it's probably worth about $700-800.

[lepard]

Also, in going through the old Dean logbooks(which are super hard to read, incomplete and convoluted), you see a bunch of late 1982 guitars listed as "tremolo". You don't start seeing guitars listed as "Kahler" until February 1983. However, there are a lot of 1983 completed date guitars that were started in 1982, with 1982 serial numbers, that didn't get completed for 2 or 3 months(into 1983). I even saw several 1982 serial numbered guitars that weren't completed until May 1983. I also saw one guitar started on 2-14-1983 that was given a 1982 serial number. Dean's record keeping was pretty atrocious.


I was able to find the NAMM 1983 guitars and that guitar was not listed under those guitars. I'm sure your guitar was started in late 1982, given a 1982 serial number and not completed until February or March 1983(they were probably waiting on the initial Kahler shipment).

Also, no use contacting Dean Zelinsky. I know Dean personally and his memory on these things is really, really bad. He sometimes asks me for info to jog his memory........... LOL. He's an interesting guy. He's more of an "artist" type that was more concerned with creating something cool. He didn't understand keeping detailed records, didn't understand people collecting things, and never even kept a collection of his original guitars. You also have to understand that he started the company in 1977 when he was only 19 years old. He spent the 1980's in his 20's partying with rock stars and snorting cocaine. It did a number on his memory and he fully admits it.

If you can get the owner of that guitar to let you look under the bridge pickup, there should be a Log/Tag number that may help look up more info. Notice the Tag Number on my white 83 Baby Z(pickup is out of it at the moment). Wstoll(Wayne) on the Dean Forum is the only one there who has a clue. I think he has the actual original Dean log books but they are half-ass scanned and online here: http://www.deanguitars.com/log_books/

[Jackson8090s]

Also, in going through the old Dean logbooks(which are super hard to read, incomplete and convoluted), you see a bunch of late 1982 guitars listed as "tremolo". You don't start seeing guitars listed as "Kahler" until February 1983. However, there are a lot of 1983 completed date guitars that were started in 1982, with 1982 serial numbers, that didn't get completed for 2 or 3 months(into 1983). I even saw several 1982 serial numbered guitars that weren't completed until May 1983. I also saw one guitar started on 2-14-1983 that was given a 1982 serial number. Dean's record keeping was pretty atrocious.


I was able to find the NAMM 1983 guitars and that guitar was not listed under those guitars. I'm sure your guitar was started in late 1982, given a 1982 serial number and not completed until February or March 1983(they were probably waiting on the initial Kahler shipment).

Also, no use contacting Dean Zelinsky. I know Dean personally and his memory on these things is really, really bad. He sometimes asks me for info to jog his memory........... LOL. He's an interesting guy. He's more of an "artist" type that was more concerned with creating something cool. He didn't understand keeping detailed records, didn't understand people collecting things, and never even kept a collection of his original guitars. You also have to understand that he started the company in 1977 when he was only 19 years old. He spent the 1980's in his 20's partying with rock stars and snorting cocaine. It did a number on his memory and he fully admits it.

If you can get the owner of that guitar to let you look under the bridge pickup, there should be a Log/Tag number that may help look up more info. Notice the Tag Number on my white 83 Baby Z(pickup is out of it at the moment). Wstoll(Wayne) on the Dean Forum is the only one there who has a clue. I think he has the actual original Dean log books but they are half-ass scanned and online here: http://www.deanguitars.com/log_books/

Thank you lepard, I took a screen shot of that page so I can have all the documentation on hand. I went and paid for the guitar this morning , it's mine, I'm going to break it down clean it up and put some new strings on it and adjust that action. Any chance of locating an original bridge pickup? What were the factory pickups? I am going to take some detailed pictures of the guitar and I'll share em for those who are interested. Thanks again for all the information.

[Psh511]

I had an 1984 baby ML in blue burst and kahlered that was incredibly light weight and played great. Sold it on ebay a long time ago but miss it. Congrats on your NGD!!

[lepard]

Original Zebra pickups on the USA's were DiMarzio Super Distortions. The Japanese Baby Deluxe models(which are most of them) had pickups that looked the same(zebra) but they were actually some pretty weak Gotohs.

Just get you an F-spaced black/cream DiMarzio Super Distortion.

[Jackson8090s]

Original Zebra pickups on the USA's were DiMarzio Super Distortions. The Japanese Baby Deluxe models(which are most of them) had pickups that looked the same(zebra) but they were actually some pretty weak Gotohs.

Just get you an F-spaced black/cream DiMarzio Super Distortion.

Cool, I was talking to a friend of mine today (after purchase) and was telling him what I knew about the guitar... he asked what pickups where in it, I told him I didn't know and that the bridge wasn't the factory set, but if I had go guess probably DiMarzio's , so you wouldn't stick EMG's in it? lol

I had an 1984 baby ML in blue burst and kahlered that was incredibly light weight and played great. Sold it on ebay a long time ago but miss it. Congrats on your NGD!!

Cool, what'd you get for it? Thanks , going to take awhile for the GASS to wear off.

[Jackson8090s]

LOL, just dawned on me that in the first picture of thread , that was when I had just opened the case and seen it... I was wearing my blue suede shoes

[lepard]

Cool, I was talking to a friend of mine today (after purchase) and was telling him what I knew about the guitar... he asked what pickups where in it, I told him I didn't know and that the bridge wasn't the factory set, but if I had go guess probably DiMarzio's , so you wouldn't stick EMG's in it? lol

Cool, what'd you get for it? Thanks , going to take awhile for the GASS to wear off. [/COLOR]

I would make it as original as possible. Go for the DiMarzio.

[Jackson8090s]

Will do. I have another project in front of this one (that's where the money came from) requiring much more attention (check my blog on this site) this one is playable... so, I'm taking today off, working Tuesday/ Wednesday to recoup this money spent.