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I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling. -
Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
I go to that site on a daily basis. Great forum. I know the interviewer (he runs the site) and I can tell you that interview is not bull whatsoever. And it pretty much sums up what a lot of people on this forum and other forums have said about Gibson quality and consistency overall -
Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Yup, this is exactly what Choppercopper and I did looking for his Les Paul a couple years ago. We played a LOT of them, and only a couple got to the "lets plug it in" point. Most were acoustically horrid. Not to mention the crap woods and frets. Dry, almost white-ish fingerboards and all.
I was looking at Rectos this past Sunday for my singer/guitarist, and while waiting for him was eyballing a row of Les Pauls. Every one of them, with the exception of a black Custom and a Class 5 had horrible finishes. The light was shining on all of them just right and the depressions and orange peel was incredible! I didn't have the urge to play any of them.Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
While I agree with the premise of the article there were several details that are flat out WRONG!!!
1. You NEVER, EVER, epoxy frets in!!!!!!!!!!
2. Gibson's "heavy" mahogany is African mahogany? NO! That is Korina. It is usually light weight...The whole wood description is bad.
3. Brazilian rosewood is warm compared to Indian rosewood. Wrong. Brazilian is BRIGHTER than Indian, though not as much as ebony.
4. Inlays didn't get thinner. they changed the plastic....
5. Gibson went to acrylic lacquer after Nitro, not polyurethane.
Bunch of other erroneous stuff too. That's all I have time to address.
-ericComment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Hmmm, my Ace Frehley Les Paul plays great, sounds great, and looks great. All I can say is that Gibsons are always bought by players, so I'm not sure I buy any of it. Its not like 13 year old kids are the ones buying Gibsons as their first guitar.............Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Although I don't profess any real expertise,and I haven't played hundreds of different Gibsons, in my experience,from looking in stores,and talking to other players,the "average"Gibson is far less well-finished than it used to be, and does not compare with many "inferior" brands. That's how it is in this part of the world,anyway.
Serious question - Does the "good stuff" stay in the US, and the "best of the rest" go for export?
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Hey, I'm an insider too! I'll call myself... BOB! Yeah, Bob. Er... anyway...
The ONE Gibson I have ever played that felt RIGHT to me was an SG Standard that I picked up for about 15 minutes in a music store when I was about 14. I haven't played thousands of LP's and SG's like some people have, but I have played my share and I have not seen another one that had anywhere near the feel. Perfect balance, perfect weight, $2500 price tag (OUCH). So that's one of maybe 75-100 Gibsons I've played. Then again, it's entirely possible that someone came up and picked up the guitar I just declared crap and found it to be the best guitar in the world. As an example, a friend of mine traded for a late 70's LP. It was heavy as hell, looked ass-ugly, but he loved it. You can't really attribute quality to feel and tone. Yes, I know they didn't do that in the article, but I'm just reiterating that fact. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
String gauges. Not all guitars sound good with 9's and not all sound good with 12's. I feel they got a bit carried away here. Every guitar will have a resonance peak and you have to find the right gauge to hit that peak. I have guitars that sound best with 10's and others that are crap unless you throw some 12's on it. Every guitar has a gauge that works best with it, in my experience. That's why my guitars are strung with everything from 9's to 13's.
African mahogany isn't korina. Korina is WHITE African Mahogany, from a different type of tree.
http://www.woodmosaic.com/samples.html Getting the two confused is understandable, since most places I've seen just list korina as African mahogany and not as limba.
Gibson's fretwork is still ****e. I'm not a fretwork master by any stretch, but I'd be embarassed to put my name on some of the crap I've seen.
Still, nothing screams "ROCK AND ROLL!" like a LP Junior with one P90. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
I have two Les Pauls, both under 8 lbs., both ring like bells and are beautifully finished. I haven't played hundreds of LPs - maybe a couple dozen - and most seem okay... The two I have are freaking amazing, however...
I don't believe Gibsons are particularly overpriced, and I don't believe their quality is particularly bad for a mass produced guitar. I do believe that a lot of people have some sort of grudge agains Gibsons for God-knows-what reason. It seems that it's perceived as cool to diss them over the last couple of years. That doesn't keep them from selling however. Guess there's lots and lots of really, really stupid but really, really rich guitar players around (how one gets rich if one is stupid is another question entirely, I suppose)...
Anyway, the interview is rife with gross factual errors. If this guy were talking about Jacksons, everybody on the board would be railing about how he obviously doesn't know what the hell he's talking about - and he doesn't, only it's Gibsons, so y'all want to jump up and agree. I think is shyte...
...and I think Black Mariah's sig is the best thing I've read all month...
[ February 21, 2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Jimi D ]Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Ha-HA!! Goooooo Jacksons!!!!!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But the quality of workmanship is not any better than the standard workmanship of any other good small shop like Hamer, Heritage, or even a custom shop like Jacksons who are selling well made guitars for less than half the Gibson price. Again, you pay a big premium for the Gibson name.Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Jimi, I'm glad you have two great ones. That dosen't make them all great, though.
I have zero brand loyality. I judge a guitar on its merits, not what it says on the headstock. Choppercopper has a great Les Paul, too. I had to play dozens to find it at an average price tag of $2000 and up.
Trendy to bash Gibsons? Well, if its trendy to make $2000 guitars that are so inconsistant that many are crap, then yup, throw me on the bandwagon.Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
I dont know about that, everytime I go to one of the stores here in Canada that carry Gibsons, they are always top notch. Maybe they send all the rejects to large stores in the US like Guitar Center, and the like. The stores here only have about 5 - 10 on hand at any one time, but from what I hear some US stores may have 200 Gibsons on hand at any one time. That would make it easier to toss in a few crap ones........Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
This guy's experience is basically similar to my own with LPs, in that I can tell within 30 seconds, usually, whether a given LP has the feel and sound I'm looking for. And I only find an occasional one that has the 'mojo'. Which I find inexcusable in a guitar that costs that much.
Of course, PRS is just as bad this way. And has anyone ever played two Fenders that were the same? Some guitars just have "it." Half the time, when I go into a used guitar store, the instrument that gives me the musical woody is some sad-looking thing--like a beat up Yamaha--that costs less than $300, while the $1000 stuff sounds and plays like crap. Go figure.
BTW, he's right about how some of the crappiest looking Gibsons turn out to be the real gems.
Now, I also think this guy's a big name dropper and talking out of his arse in this interview--yeah, he's a real "insider"... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
In the last part of the interview, he takes a jab at Gibson for trying to drop the "mom 'n pop" store he works at from their Authorised Dealer list in favor of "the big companies". I wish he hadn't gone there, because it could dis-credit his other arguements in the eyes of some people.
Most of what he said is absolutely true, but it can be applied to other manufacturers as well. The bottom line is: Play and compare before you buy.
I think Gibson gets the the most flack on this issue for two reasons:
1. Price. They are considerably more expensive than other USA guitars. This can be connected to the next point...
2. Their manufacturing process takes the "hand-made" concept to the extreme, yet they still want to put out guitars in mass quantities. Imagine if Ford Motor Co. had their workers perform every weld point and tighten every bolt by hand (no robots), yet expected the same number of cars to go out the door each month. Quality would drop and prices would go up.
I currently own 2 Gibson semi-hollows, but no Les Pauls. One of them was flawless when I bought it, while the other had several "quality control" issues - most of which were cosmetic and didn't affect the tone. Both guitars sound awesome and play beautifully. I wonder if the factors he mentioned apply equally to a semi-hollow guitar...or perhaps even more so? His biggest complaint seemed to be the Pauls that came out too heavy and therefore lacked midrange in their tone. A semi-hollow wouldn't have the "too heavy" problem, I wouldn't think.Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
My Vintage Studio SG that I just picked up is fantastic. Mahogny body and neck with ebony fretboard and 2 double coils. I posted under new toys if you wana look.Comment
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Re: Interesting read about Les Paul quality
Two years ago, my brother was convinced that the Gibson SG was the guitar for him. Having several years more guitar experience than him, I went along to check out the axes he had his eye on. Prior to this point, I had been GASsing for a Les Paul, and had been really disappointed with Gibsons, enough so that I bought a Korean Dean EVO instead. Well, when it came to the SGs, my brother wanted a good one. He was looking at Standards and Supremes, so firmly in the $1200-2000 price range.
What I saw was unimpressive, considering the "Made in USA" label and the pricetag. An otherwise-beautiful trans blue SG Supreme with extensive orange peel. Another Supreme with excess glue at the neck joint and finish flaws elsewhere on the body. A Standard with crooked inlays. We looked at a dozen or so SGs, and every one had finish flaws or some sort of pickup malfunction. He ended up finding an old Guild double-cutaway for a third of the price, with none of the flaws and the nicest ebony fretboard I've ever seen. Hell, he has two `70s Electra Omega LP copies, $300 each, that blow away any recent Gibson.
I have my own complaints about Gibsons. I was really tempted to order a Les Paul Studio with pewter finish. Then I found that the inlays are plastic. The pickups are the same as on the low-end LP Special. They recently increased the price on this model a couple hundred dollars to boot. Why would I want to spend $1300 on a guitar with so many cut corners? Surely not for the Gibson logo. Apparently, they've never heard of "bang for the buck".Comment
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