80s Kramer Pacer

[Dave L]

I´m thinking of picking up an 80´s Kramer. Apparently the neckplate says E7848, but the accompanying paperwork states is as PCM E7099. Can anyone give me a rough estimate on what this is? A real Kramer made in the USA, a japanese American-series or perhaps something else?

A pic of it
http://www2.blocket.se/view/1221379.htm?l=0

[RICH R]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Originally posted by Dave L:
I´m thinking of picking up an 80´s Kramer. Apparently the neckplate says E7848, but the accompanying paperwork states is as PCM E7099. Can anyone give me a rough estimate on what this is? A real Kramer made in the USA, a japanese American-series or perhaps something else?

A pic of it
http://www2.blocket.se/view/1221379.htm?l=0

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">here ya go
[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] http://www.kramermaniaxe.com/Info.htm

[Dave L]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Thanks man! This is what I gather it is, from the website:

"If your guitar has a pointy headstock and a diminishing sized Kramer logo with the letters diminishing in size from the K to the R and, there is a script "American" decal after the "KRAMER" logo, it is a 1987-1994 American Series Kramer Guitar."

So, it is made in Japan...that was what I suspected. He claimed it was made in the USA, but many people just can´t seem to realize that their "American" Kramers are made by ESP.

[Geir]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

I am 99% sure it's a Kramer Pacer Custom 1. I've got one in black, and it's practically identical.

I paid 3500 NOK (Norwegian Kroners) for mine.

[Dave L]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Yeah, 6500 SEK (swedish kronor) is way out of line. I might go up to 4000, but not 6500. I mean, American-series Barettas sell for 3000.

[2Loud2Old]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

"American Series" Kramers had the necks made in Japan by ESP.

Other companies made necks for them as well, including a Canadian company called Larivee. (still making guitars as of this day)

There is a little confusion as in a recent interview the former president of Kramer, Dennis Berardi claims that after 86, the only Kramers made by ESP were the neckthroughs.

In any case, all American Series Kramers were assembled, and setup in the Neptune, NJ Shop.

[Dave L]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

In that case, who made the bolt-ons after 1986? Larrivée? Not Kramer themselves, I guess.

[2Loud2Old]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

We know that the bodies were created by an American company called "Sports", who also made baseball bats.

"Sports" apparently went bankrupt and Kramer bought them out, so that would make Kramer the manufacturer.... I guess

We know that they were painted and all components were assembled in NJ.

Check out this thread on the Kramer Forum.

Perhaps it will shed some light.

Will the REAL US Kramer please stand up

[ June 18, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: 2Loud2Old ]

[SARJ]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Talk about a find. This has nothing to do with the Kramer guitar listed above, but it leads me to a question about USA or Japanese. Last year in November I found a Strathead Kramer at a pawn shop called One Eyed Jacks in Albuquerque NM. Would that have been a USA Kramer? How old would that be? They wanted $300 for it at first and I said I knew a tone of people who would go crazy over it. I posted about it right here. Someone called the store and they had jacked it up to like $600 I think. How rare is a Strathead kramer? By the way, it had 2 buckers, brass vintage trem, vol, tone, 3 way toggle switch, maple board, 22 frets and an aged white Strat style body.

[2Loud2Old]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

I'm not the expert on vintage Kramers, as the others on the Kramer Forum know alot more.

Strat heads are completely U.S built.

$300.00 was a very good deal, you shoulda bought it. [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img]

Even at $600.00 is not bad, if it was in good shape, I'm sure it could be sold for a minimum of $800.00

A "true" Strat-head Kramer is worth quite a bit to some people, approaching San Dimas Charvel desirability.

Currently, the non-tilt, banana head 1984 Kramers are commanding up to $1000.00 U.S.

They are the "Holy Grail"

[Greg Crowe]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

OK, here's the deal and yes this is confusing. The guitars up through the 82-83 Stratheads were basically all USA made. When the bannana headstock neck came out in 1984, it was USA made and those necks had luthier joints which all tended to separate. Because of this, sometime in 1985 the banana headstock necks moved to Canada(Lasido I think but Kramer was in bed with Larrivee also).

In 1986 with the start of the pointy headstock necks, ALL BODIES AND NECKS WERE MADE BY ESP!!!! In fact, the bodies began before the necks in late 85. I actually own a late 85 Kramer USA Rhoads with a Canadian banana headstock neck and an ESP Rhoads body(the ESP Rhoads body was slightly larger than the USA made body previously). That guitar is all original.

In 1986, with the pointy headstock necks, ESP bodies and necks were sent to NJ and assembled there which in Kramer's business model made them "American" guitars.

Now, as to the neck-thru's........ I don't think anyone truly understands the deal here. What is known is that Kramer did not have any facilities whatsoever to produce a neck-thru guitar. The 1986 and up neck-thru Stagemasters were made entirely by ESP in Japan and then had their electronics and Floyd plugged together in NJ. That much is fairly common public knowledge. What almost nobody knows it that Larrivee in Canada was building Kramer neck-thru's also. All Paul Dean models were made by Larrivee. To what extent other models and parts were made by Larrivee is not exactly known. If you'll look on Larrivee's website, they even mention building guitars for Kramer. Check this out, NOT a Kramer Paul Dean:

[2Loud2Old]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

I've seen those a few times Greg, great guitars.

Since I live in Toronto, I run into a Larrivee or a Lado on occasion. I know of a red "Paul Dean" for saled up here.

Also, ever seen a neck-through "Vanguard"?!?

I have, a local shop is selling one for cheap, 'course it's a Larrivee, and has a Kahler.

But the body and banana headstock is a dead-ringer....

There's even a Kramer logo on it.. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Dave L]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Thanks for clearing that up, Greg!

[abalonevintage]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Greg,

ALL the 1981-1982 Stathead necks were ESP.

Most 1982-1983 Classic necks, except for the very last few, were made by ESP.

The early LaSiDo necks came apart at the luthier joint also.

-eric

[ June 26, 2003, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: abalonevintage ]

[abalonevintage]

Re: 80s Kramer Pacer

Greg,

ALL the 1981-1982 Stathead necks were ESP.

Most 1982-1983 Classic necks, except for the very last few, were made by ESP.

The early LaSiDo necks came apart at the luthier joint also. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

-eric

[ June 26, 2003, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: abalonevintage ]