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**Black Mariah** · 10-16-2003, 04:24 AM

Re: New Kramers...

[img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

They're NOT as good as an SL3/4, nowhere near it. The finishes are s**tty looking, the necks feel weird, the hardware is crap, the neck joint is too damned blocky, and that tremolo feels like total s**te compared to a JT580LP.

Yes, it's a good guitar for the money but don't go comparing it to an SL3/4. It's not even in the same league.

**slayer** · 10-16-2003, 08:16 AM

Re: New Kramers...

i bought a Black SL4 about 2 years ago and sold it pretty darn fast, I thought it was a overpriced low/Moderate quality instrument, wasn`t worth the $599 I paid for it, maybe about $300-350. Jack.

**slayer** · 10-16-2003, 08:16 AM

Re: New Kramers...

i bought a Black SL4 about 2 years ago and sold it pretty darn fast, I thought it was a overpriced low/Moderate quality instrument, wasn`t worth the $599 I paid for it, maybe about $300-350. Jack.

**Black Mariah** · 10-16-2003, 09:15 AM

Re: New Kramers...

If an SL3/4 is worth $300, then that must mean a Kramer is worth about $25. Canadian.

**Black Mariah** · 10-16-2003, 09:15 AM

Re: New Kramers...

If an SL3/4 is worth $300, then that must mean a Kramer is worth about $25. Canadian.

**Greg Crowe** · 10-16-2003, 10:09 AM

Re: New Kramers...

Originally posted by Black Mariah:
[img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

They're NOT as good as an SL3/4, nowhere near it. The finishes are s**tty looking, the necks feel weird, the hardware is crap, the neck joint is too damned blocky, and that tremolo feels like total s**te compared to a JT580LP.

Yes, it's a good guitar for the money but don't go comparing it to an SL3/4. It's not even in the same league.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then you must have NEVER spent time with these guitars. The neckjoint/body/construction is IDENTICAL to a Jackson Soloist, a total construction ripoff. For you to say the neck joint is "too damn blocky", that must mean you hate Jackson Soloist's because they are THE EXACT SAME!

The Floyd on the Kramer is MILES! better than the newer junky JT-580's with their goofy saddles and bars that won't stay tight.

I have personally owned 5 of these things and not a one had a single finish flaw.

Like I said before, they do need a complete setup as delivered. If you just pick one up straight out of the box, they're just OK.

Right now I have a metallic blue and metallic black 404 S/D and a metallic black "US Collection" model. I should probably sell off the metallic black 404 S/D since there's no reason to own 2 of these things in the same color and I might as well keep the "US Collection" version. However, the metallic black 404 S/D plays the best of all of them. I find it really hard to sell such a good playing guitar when all you'll get out of one is about $200.

[ October 16, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Greg Crowe ]

**Greg Crowe** · 10-16-2003, 10:09 AM

Re: New Kramers...

Originally posted by Black Mariah:
[img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

They're NOT as good as an SL3/4, nowhere near it. The finishes are s**tty looking, the necks feel weird, the hardware is crap, the neck joint is too damned blocky, and that tremolo feels like total s**te compared to a JT580LP.

Yes, it's a good guitar for the money but don't go comparing it to an SL3/4. It's not even in the same league.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then you must have NEVER spent time with these guitars. The neckjoint/body/construction is IDENTICAL to a Jackson Soloist, a total construction ripoff. For you to say the neck joint is "too damn blocky", that must mean you hate Jackson Soloist's because they are THE EXACT SAME!

The Floyd on the Kramer is MILES! better than the newer junky JT-580's with their goofy saddles and bars that won't stay tight.

I have personally owned 5 of these things and not a one had a single finish flaw.

Like I said before, they do need a complete setup as delivered. If you just pick one up straight out of the box, they're just OK.

Right now I have a metallic blue and metallic black 404 S/D and a metallic black "US Collection" model. I should probably sell off the metallic black 404 S/D since there's no reason to own 2 of these things in the same color and I might as well keep the "US Collection" version. However, the metallic black 404 S/D plays the best of all of them. I find it really hard to sell such a good playing guitar when all you'll get out of one is about $200.

[ October 16, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Greg Crowe ]

**Greg Crowe** · 10-16-2003, 10:18 AM

Re: New Kramers...

.........damn "time has expired to edit your post" !

Another thing to consider is that things were only $199 when they first came out(22 fret versions, different headstock). Now they're at $330 for the 404 S/D. Another couple years and they'll probably be well over $400.

**Greg Crowe** · 10-16-2003, 10:18 AM

Re: New Kramers...

.........damn "time has expired to edit your post" !

Another thing to consider is that things were only $199 when they first came out(22 fret versions, different headstock). Now they're at $330 for the 404 S/D. Another couple years and they'll probably be well over $400.

**Black Mariah** · 10-16-2003, 11:13 AM

Re: New Kramers...

What the hell are you smoking, dude? Did you miss the part where I mentioned my friend's Kramer, that I have played for hours on many occasions? I guess so.

My friend's finish has more waves than a pool right after a fat chick has done a cannonball off the high dive board. The lamination lines, where the sides of the body meet the center neck block, are very pronounced. Those are finish flaws, they are there, and they look like ass. Not just any ass. It's the dimpled, hail-dented ass of that cannonballing fat chick I just mentioned. [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img]

The neck/body joint IS too damn blocky. So is the neck/body joint on USA Soloists, which is why I hate USA Soloists. The SL3/4's have a different heel shape that I find much more comfortable.

I have never had any problems with the JT580LP, and coming from purely a feel perspective I freaking hate OFR style trems, so the Kramer's trem loses out right there, IMO. I can't comment on the long term non-suckiness of the Kramer's trem, but I can comment that I, personally, this is me speaking, in my own damn opinion, don't like them at all.

If the SL3/4 was made in Korea using low quality parts and materials along with cheapass pickups (which even I'll attest to sounding pretty damn good) then they'd be under $300 too. They are not. They are made with good wood, good hardware, and real Duncans (which I assure you are NOT cheap, even for manufacturers).

The Kramer neckthrus are not bad guitars, but they're nowhere near the SL3's.

**Black Mariah** · 10-16-2003, 11:13 AM

Re: New Kramers...

What the hell are you smoking, dude? Did you miss the part where I mentioned my friend's Kramer, that I have played for hours on many occasions? I guess so.

My friend's finish has more waves than a pool right after a fat chick has done a cannonball off the high dive board. The lamination lines, where the sides of the body meet the center neck block, are very pronounced. Those are finish flaws, they are there, and they look like ass. Not just any ass. It's the dimpled, hail-dented ass of that cannonballing fat chick I just mentioned. [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img]

The neck/body joint IS too damn blocky. So is the neck/body joint on USA Soloists, which is why I hate USA Soloists. The SL3/4's have a different heel shape that I find much more comfortable.

I have never had any problems with the JT580LP, and coming from purely a feel perspective I freaking hate OFR style trems, so the Kramer's trem loses out right there, IMO. I can't comment on the long term non-suckiness of the Kramer's trem, but I can comment that I, personally, this is me speaking, in my own damn opinion, don't like them at all.

If the SL3/4 was made in Korea using low quality parts and materials along with cheapass pickups (which even I'll attest to sounding pretty damn good) then they'd be under $300 too. They are not. They are made with good wood, good hardware, and real Duncans (which I assure you are NOT cheap, even for manufacturers).

The Kramer neckthrus are not bad guitars, but they're nowhere near the SL3's.

**2Loud2Old** · 10-16-2003, 02:58 PM

Re: New Kramers...

Just to add fuel to the fire.

I had a Music Yo Baretta FR404SD

It looked almost exactly like my Charvel Model 6 from the back.

The neck-body flow and feel felt the same.

The finish and workmanship WAS a little sub-par compared to the Charvel.

BUT...

It played just as well once setup right..

THE best value in a neck-through guitar..period.

**2Loud2Old** · 10-16-2003, 02:58 PM

Re: New Kramers...

Just to add fuel to the fire.

I had a Music Yo Baretta FR404SD

It looked almost exactly like my Charvel Model 6 from the back.

The neck-body flow and feel felt the same.

The finish and workmanship WAS a little sub-par compared to the Charvel.

BUT...

It played just as well once setup right..

THE best value in a neck-through guitar..period.

**Greg Crowe** · 10-16-2003, 05:35 PM

Re: New Kramers...

.........what he said!

**Greg Crowe** · 10-16-2003, 05:35 PM

Re: New Kramers...

.........what he said!

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