Is Korea comming of age?

[straycat]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

I had a 2001 dean EVO 60 gold top with 2 P90s mahogony body and neck, thick rosewood fret board and I have to say it was as good as any usa les paul I've had excluding an 83 TV yellow studio that I wish I had back.
The dean was top shelf all the way very very well put together and the tone was clear and defined like a P90 should be.The guy that laid down the $350.00 for it has thanked me for selling it to him every time I see him.I also had a Grestch NAMM show model jet pro #24/100 korean built flame maple top another fine guitar.Some of the korean guitars just as good as some jap ones.

[Black Mariah]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

A friend of mine has a Korean made Curbow 5-string fretless bass that plays and sounds better than any other bass I've played.

But then, I've never played any Spectors or Warwicks or anything like that. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Manufacturers, I think, are starting to realize that they can build guitars in Korea for less than what they can in Japane, but that people will pay the same price. Cheaper labor costs mean better hardware and electronics at the same price point.

[GWARGHOUL]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

I owned a Alvarez AE200 CS back in 1995.
It wasn't comparable to today's Korean made guitars, but was a really nice guitar. Very beautiful cherry sunburst, and nice neck, fretwork etc.

Wish I could find another one.

[StuTDavis]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

I think there are a couple different factors going on here...just stuff I've noticed over the years...

(1) The difference between LOOKING like a good guitar and actually BEING a good guitar.

These companies are smart, pay attention to what they are doing. Let's take ESP for example. ESP was doing really, really cheap guitars in countries other than Japan. They started producing more midline non-Japanese guitars. Then, they cut back on their upper-end Japanese guitars, and started jacking the prices way up. Over the years, they have produced more and more expensive and better LOOKING midline guitars, to the point that they have almost got their non-Japanese models LOOKING to be as good of guitars as their Japanese ones. All the while, those guitars may OR may not actually be higher quality, better built guitars--they might just LOOk that way, so people expect them to BE that way. See what's happened? Their idea was to convince Joe-Q that those guitars that LOOK so fancy are GREAT guitars--a change in perception of the consumer--and they have succeeded in many cases. They've even taken what some people have done and put better quality and "name brand" parts and pickups on some of these guitars, in order to convince you to buy them. Now, instead of buying a $300 guitar and putting $200 of new hardware on it, you're buying a $500-600 guitar with those parts on it. But it doesn't mean the rest of the guitar is any better than it would have been otherwise. And, of course, you still could have paid that much or a couple hundred more and got a used guitar you KNOW is better than that guitar all-around. Of course we know these overseas companies CAN put abalone inlays in a guitar instead of plastic crap inlays...and that they CAN put binding on a guitar. But does that REALLY change the guitar so much? The best way to hide flaws is to draw the attention away from them, toward something else, in any case. And the best way to convince someone that something is "good enough" is to point out all the obvious positive features, like little sparkly jewels in their eyes. Don't let the flash fool ya, and realize this is a trend--pretty much EVERY major guitar company has jumped on this bandwagon in the past decade or so.


(2) Player perception of guitars.

While I would never say that someone vs. someone else doesn't have the ability or knowledge to discern the actual "quality" of a guitar, I know that some people perceieve differences in guitars more than others. Some people are more sensitive to the differences than others, just as some people have more sensitive feeling in their fingers, more sensitive ears etc. Some people can't feel enough difference between playing an import Jackson and a USA Jackson, to understand why anyone would pay the difference. Others love the USA, but once they try to play the import, it's immediately obvious that it's not even in the same ballpark to them. So, when someone says that a Koren guitar feels and sounds almost exactly the same as a USA of the same brand, realize it might just be that that person might or might not feel the same amount of difference between those guitars that you would and, as in everything in this industry...your mileage may vary.

Stu

[slayer]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

Suposively, the Agile top end guitars made in Korea are a best buy according to the remarks I have seen, especially yhe newest one with an ebony board and abalone trap inlays, and it looks really nice also. Jack.

[Flatpicker]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

I can't see how there would be much of a manufacturing difference any longer as CNC machines are doing all the the work.
It's the finishing details that seem to be the difference.

I wonder if an American company could cut costs by shipping the wood to Korea to have it shaped and assembled then have it shipped back for the finishing? (nut installation,fret work, bridge adjustments, finishing)

[pro-fusion]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

The Koreans (Samick, basically, which makes all of the Epiphones, LTDs, Schecter Diamonds, etc.) have come a LONG ways in the last few years in terms of quality. In fact, in terms of build quality, I don't detect much difference between the various Korean guitars and those made anywhere else. Still, these are mostly entry-level guitars, which are evidenced by the main flaws I have found:

1. Inconsistent (and often poor) sound quality. I think this is due to the quality of woods going into guitars. Since the Samick factory is pumping out those guitars at a frenetic pace, they aren't going to be as choosy about the woods they use, as compared to a low-volume manufacturer. Within any given type of wood, some pieces are going to make better guitar-parts than others--and that selection is, I believe, a large part of what you pay for in an expensive guitar. Note, some of the Samicks sound absolutely awesome, but others (especially the LTDs, for some reason) are very dead planks of wood. Just this weekend I played a used LTD Stephen Carpenter-sig 7-string with real EMG-707s at Guitar Center that sounded like ass--there was just no resonance in the wood.

2. Poor quality hardware. This is strictly a function of the guitars being entry-level. And the various companies that contract with Samick are starting to incorporate better hardware--witness that LTD Carpenter guitar I played, or the Schecter C-1 Classic, which has absolutely top of the line hardware (and which I highly recommend).

3. Fretwork. Some of the Korean guitars I've played have very nice fretwork--the Schecter C-1 Classic, for example, but most don't seem to be all that great. Not horrible, mind you--they are usually polished pretty well and with no sharp edges--, but just not as friendly to the fingers as you'd see on any Jackson or on USA or Japanese guitars, for the most part. Again, I would attribute this to the high volume of production, rather than the capabilities of the builders. Fretwork is handwork, basically, and you're just not going to get a lot of that in a $3-500 guitar, are you?

Having said all that, I wish that there had been the quality of entry-level guitars back when I started playing in the early '80s that the Samick people have now reached.

[2Loud2Old]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

StuTDavis, Your post has me baffled.

Are you saying "That if a Korean Guitar looks good, someone's ability to judge it's "playability and tone" is seriously diminished???

Thats about the most bizzare thing I've heard since "The fact that we havn't found any WMD proves that Saddam HAS WMD..."

You talk about "perception"., I do agree in part.. I believe some people to assume that since they have a US guitar.. they might "percieve" that it plays better than a Japanese or Korean guitar.

I have a strong hunch that if you gave them certain imports, and told them they were US made...they'd be all over it.

I understand the "perception" part, I used to think that anything less than a USA guitar was a waste of time.

Hell, I remember how the USA Jackson guys were always looking down on "Model Series Charvels"

"Cheap imports", they'd say.. I think it's pretty safe to say that the higher-end models were pretty much the equal of some US Jacksons when it came to construction, fit, finish

We all know why the original import professional series was canceled.

I don't have a lot of US guitars at the moment, and none of them custom shop, I'll admit.(about 4, including 2 Jacksons)


In my experience, none of MY US made guitars offer anything more in terms of playability or tone.

What they do offer, in general is name recognition, resale value and more flash at times.. certainly not anything important to MY guitar playing.

I understand that this is a blanket statement...everyone has a different opinion

As for my opinion and my ability to judge the difference between my DK1 and my DK2, well I guess I'm glad I'm not sensitive enough, I'd hate to not have my DK2.

Then again, it may be my special ability to play all guitars equally badly so none of them sound any different. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

For those of you that shun Korean guitars on the assumption that they're no good.. I really think you are missing out.

I never would have bought one 2 years ago, I thought they were "beneath me"

There are alot of crappy ones for sure, but if you look around, you may find yourself surprised.

I managed to find 4 unique, quality guitars for a fraction of their US counterparts.

Are they the equal? No.. but damm close in some c ases..and well made in all. For a working shmuck like me who can't drop $800-$1200 on every guitar I see, this is a Godsend

As always, YOUR mileage will vary. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[JACKSONFREAK]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

Samick isn't the worlds largest guitar maker for nothing. I have a killer Epi LP Custom in Alpine White that is almost as good as my 76 Gibson. It sounded pretty good as stock. But me being the modifier I am I swapped the pups out and put in GIbson pots and Gibson tuners. Now it's amaizing for th 300 bucks I paid for it. Yeah the electronics in some of the Korean stuff isnt that great but with a little knowledge of pickups and wiring you can get a desent sounding guitar to be an amaizing sounding guitar.
I had a Korean Hamer Standard that was the best sounding Explorer I've ever played. IT had its pups swapped out for a Super D and a 59 and it just had tone for days. It was the natural mohagony one. ( looked like korina) Great guitar and it had a 2nd stamped on the back of the headstock too. So if that was a second (minor flaw in laquer on bass side of finger board edge that didnt affect anything) I would love to have a A stock Standard in the same woods. Everybody that played that gutar couldn't believe it was Korean made. The Schecter stuff is incredable for the money. If it wasnt for the over done finger board inlays on the C1 classic I would get one. Althouth the C1 elite is very nice even though its a set neck opposed to the thru neck of the classic.
But oh well still great guitar for under a 1000.00
Most under 600.00
The only Korean guitar I currently own is my Epi Paul. We recently got in a Epiphone Les PUal Custom in Cherry burst with gold hardware and it was just incredable. It looked just like my Gibby except for it had a flame top on it. And the back is mohagony too. Just needed better electronics and tuners.
Gil

[straycat]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

Hey Gil go to r&sguitars.net they have an upgrade kit for les paul vol and tone pots.I had a les paul studio with the gibson linear pots(that sucked ass)the r&s pot kit turned that guitar in to an awesome tone monster,we are talking a tone that sounds incredible, very fluid ooooy drippy kind of tone.The guys at r&s know les pauls and do incredible work as well as killer refins.And build their own line of high quality guitars.Joe Walsh endorses their guitars.The guys at r&s are great guys personally too.They have done refin work for me and man they do good work.

[StuTDavis]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

2Loud2Old,

What I was saying about the import guitars looking better over time is, it's easy to ASSUME that something is actually better if it LOOKS better. The same goes for anything, really--guitars, cars, heck a kitchen stove, for that matter. Humans (and men especially) being visually-oriented, as are most animals, are generally naturally drawn towards shiny things that look good. I'm not saying that everyone falls into that trap every time, but it does happen. Something looks good, and the person assumes it actually IS good, without perhaps looking further into it. Something akin to buying a really cool looking car that might actually be a POS once they own it for a while. As well, sometimes it's easy to mentally "prop up" something's negative traits, for the fact that its positive traits appeal to us so much. In that, it's easy to say "this guitar isn't the best in the world, but it looks GREAT, so I'll keep it!", whereas that same guitar, if it looked like crap, they might decide not to keep it. And, in the end, my message was that this is partly what the companies are counting on--making fancy looking guitars cheaply, because people tend to make certain assumptions and allocations towards things that look good. All the while, these $500 flashy guitars might not sometimes actually BE better guitars than their flat-black $300 counterparts. I'm not saying this is the case with every one of them, but it's something people should be aware of and pay attention to. CAN overseas guitar makers create great guitars? Sure! But, it's important for people to not get so hung up on the flash that they ignore or prop up other aspects that are truly not good WHEN they are truly not good. Again, not saying you or anyone else specifically has fallen into the trap, just it's important for people to be aware when someone out there is trying to trick them, and there's a lot of that going on.

Personally, I have no objection to owning anything that I like. I've got no specific bias, I only note the generalities I've experienced and go by those, as anyone does. In my experience, I've never played an asian import non-Japanese guitar that I've actually liked. I could always feel an immediate difference in the feel of the guitars vs. ones I do like. Notice I say "ones I do like"...not "USA made guitars"...it doesn't matter to me where a guitar is made--if I like it I like it, it's just that I've never played anything from, say, Korea or Indonesia, that I liked at all. Of course, I'll say I haven't played every model of every manufacturer to know if there's ANYTHING out there that I might like, and I wouldn't shut myself off to the possibility. Don't get me wrong, being a po'folk myself, hell yeah I'd LOVE to be able to buy $400 that I loved to play, and I'm happy as can be for you that you've found cheaper guitars that jazz you almost as much as your USAs! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Stu

[Jim Shine]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

I agree largely with Black Mariah. Technology and the demand for higher quality materials are the main factors that are leading to higher quality guitars coming from places like Korea. There was a time (90's) where you could see Korea's ability to make a good product was hampered by the useage of crap materials such as plywood, plastic inlays, lowest quality rosewood and maple as well as low end economy Ping hardware. Today better woods and higher quality hardware are being combined for higher quality guitars. The same thing happened with Japan. Before the late 70's, most Japanese guitars were constructed of odd or ply woods and horrible hardware. When they went into the clone game of classic Gibson and Fender guitars, they began upgrading woods and eventually hardware as well. It is an evolution that is almost guranteed to happen. Someday we may see Phillipino guitars made of comparible quality.

[Jim Shine]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

To add: one of Fender's earliest relationships with an offshore factory to build guitars with their name on them was for their very early 80's Bullet model guitars. The first year they were made the bodies and necks were made in Korea of specific woods, then shipped here for final assembly so they could carry a "Made in USA" decal. People can't tell the difference between the Korean necks and the ones made just afterward in the USA. Infact, fans of these guitars like to believe there never was a Korean version made. If they could have made such a product 20 years ago, they definately are capable of it today. It all boils down to what the contracting company wants in the finished product. Good materials at a low price or a flat out cheap model made with a certain price point in mind.

[MSGfan]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

Korea has been producing some great solid body electrics as of late! I own a Dean`79 series ML and Hamer Archtop that I changed some of the hardware on both and changed the pickups to Duncans and they scream!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[AlexL]

Re: Is Korea comming of age?

Yesterday I bought a made-in-Korea Schecter Stiletto Elite 4 bass guitar. Neck through, maple body, flame maple top, active EQ, etc. Absolutely gorgeous, incredible tone, even without being plugged into an amp. The only flaw I could find was a small touch-up to the binding at the tip of the headstock. An unbelievable value for the 489.00 I paid for it (thanks to Adam at the Edina MN Guitar Center for the great price!).

I can't believe what a fine instrument it is for the price.

I say, for Schecters anyway, MIK = A OK.


- E.