New GMW (Problems)

[RP]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

GMW has a very good reputation overall for producing quality work. Does that mean that every customer is going to be 100% satisfied? Of course not. Does that mean that there's never occassion when the customer has a right to be upset? Of course not.

With any company, you have to weigh the good vs. the bad. If you refused to deal with every company that someone had a bad experience with, you wouldn't be able to buy anything at all.

Of course, when you're the guy with the problem, you don't particularly care what the happy customer vs. unhappy customer ratio is. You just want your problem solved (and having dealt with Nissan North America since January trying to get them to give me a $29 part so my car will run again, I know the feeling and knowing all sorts of people who swear Nissan makes a great product that has made them happy doesn't make me feel any better, either).

I hope Moregain's problem is solved to his satisfaction.

[wyldefan]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

I think that with a company like GMW this is not the place to post such complaints. Anyone on this forum knows that Lee builds great guitars, in fact a lot of us own Lee's guitars. I am sure Lee will fix the problem. I hate when this forum is used to bash a company or a person that is well respected. Everyoneone makes mistakes. GMW in my opinion makes a great product and their customer service has always been stellar! I hope you get the problem fixed but trying to ruin his reputation won't help anyone.

I hope I didn't upset anyone with my 2 cents....

[Alexi7]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Well, if what you say is right moregain, then Lee at GMW fucked up, why is everyone making excuses, it could be this, it could be that [but no way it could be lee] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] get over it, it happens to the best of us, as long as moregain gets his guitar back playing sweetly, its all good.
Cheers

[StuTDavis]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Tim,

With all due respect, I can't disagree more. I'm not upset with your response--just think a counterpoint might be prudent here. PLENTY of companies are bashed, plenty of products are bashed, and plenty of bands are bashed on this board. I think it's absurd that GMW should get some sort of "halo of protect" on the board, and be immune to being criticized when someone has a problem with them, their products or service. Yet, so many times, when anyone says anything negative about them, a rash of guys come out of the woodwork and insist just how absoulutely wrong the person with the complaint must be. Hmf...I had a HORRIBLE experience with GMW, and any time I've ever brought it up, I've got bashed like crazy for saying anything negative against them. It's the old "victimize the victim even more" thing, and it's wrong.

Now, if you want to turn this into some kind of 100% nicey-nice board where NO company or product ever has a negative thing said against it, then cool. But no company should be singled out for "protected status" like this, just because it's the company darling of so many around here. Or, if you want to single GMW out, then single them out to not be mentioned or discussed, or have pics of their guitars posted at all. If they can't get the negative, they shouldn't get the positive, either.

But, I think it's important for us to hear ALL the negative experiences people have with guitar related companies and products, just as much as it's important to hear the praise. That's how people make informed decisions. And that's what forums like this are supposed to be about.

Stu

Originally posted by Tim Krueger:
I think that with a company like GMW this is not the place to post such complaints. Anyone on this forum knows that Lee builds great guitars, in fact a lot of us own Lee's guitars. I am sure Lee will fix the problem. I hate when this forum is used to bash a company or a person that is well respected. Everyoneone makes mistakes. GMW in my opinion makes a great product and their customer service has always been stellar! I hope you get the problem fixed but trying to ruin his reputation won't help anyone.

I hope I didn't upset anyone with my 2 cents....

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[Econ]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

I have ordered from Lee twice and the guitars have arrived with perfect setups. The fact that you will have to pay for shipping the guitar back doesn't look good. Lee should pay all shipping charges.

[wyldefan]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Stu, I see your point and agree with you. I just feel that sometimes we post positive or negative feedback to quick on a forum before really trying to handle the problem with the person or company we are having the problem with. I don't doubt for a second that Lee has screwed up before. I had a complaint with one of my GMW's but he fixed it and made everything okay. My point is that sometimes people are quick to judge. I hope the guitar gets fixed and I do agree that Lee should pay all shipping charges. [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Lazar Gajic]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Interesting post and would love to comment on a few points raised. Guitars are made of wood and wood moves regardless of seasoned properly or whatever. In defence of GMW I do not believe for one minute that the guitar our bro recieved left them with a problem as once the guitar is set-up to perfection any knocks bangs or movement this recieves in transit WILL affect its playability PERIOD. I can only assume that sometimes when shipping a guitar from one country to another and especially during air travel atmosphere and climate changes occur and if the nevk moved with some heat a fret may have popped ot slightly causing you to experience a buzz. This can be simply remedied with a smal amount of glue into the fret slot or a gentle tap with a pin hammer to reset the fret or a small clamp to hold it down until it sets. Granted although its not fair that the customer has to do this themselves but what other option do you have than to send it back get Lee to do this and then risk maybe more damage on the way back. Just to mention 4 years ago I built a Tony Iommi SG and had set this up to perfection and this was inspected by at least a dozen other people as testimony of my work and it was shipped to Santa barbara from the UK to a customer, upon its arrival we got an e-mail from the guy saying that one of the crosses on the first fret was cracked and he wasn't at all happy so I gave him the option to send it back all shipping covered by me I would replace the damaged cross and send it back "OR" I would let him get an estimate for repair from his local repair guy and I would pay for this no questions asked. I personally felt bad as the customer had spent a huge amount of money in getting this guitar custom made and his priority was my concern. I then enquired from UPS as to what the problem may have been and the put it down to altitude problems which caused the fingerboard to contract causing pressure on the cross causing it to crack. Luckily I was covered but again shit or bust the customer would of got this guitar fixed at "MY" expense not his. I do think GMW should at least ackknowlegde the fact that that there is a problem and should handle it a bit more diplomatically JMHO but again this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, anyway hope it gets resolved and look forward to seeing a pic of it. Kammo1 [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[StuTDavis]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Tim,

Definitely. A lot of the time, a person's first reaction is to vent their situation on a board like this, when they haven't really tried to rectify the situation yet. Personally, I have no problem with that, because, again, these are "discussion boards". In the same sense, a lot of guys get their brand-spankin' new guitar or amp and come on sometimes and post even before playing the thing and rave about it, or after having only played through an amp once, and say how awesome it is. Just like a first-impression negative can give extra (sometimes unwarranted) sway against a company like this, sometimes a first-impression positive can give extra sway (again, sometimes unwarranted) towards a company. My guess is, there have been many times where guys who've come on immediately to say how great a product is, somewhere down the road find it's not 100% so wonderful as they first thought, but they don't always bother to come back--perhaps from embarassment sometimes--to say "yaknow, what I said before...forget that...it's not so hot" hehehe.

The point is to discuss gear, and discuss situations, be they positive or negative. And the hope is, eventually, that people WILL come back and remark if the negative situation was rectified, or if their oh-so-great amp turned out to be a stinker. Like Moregain here...say he contacts Lee and everything gets taken care of all fine and dandy, and he's happy as can be. Well, he ought to come back and post that. This way, it shows, yeah, he had a problem, but the company was willing to take care of it. On the other hand, if Lee's not willing to go the extra mile for him and make it right, he needs to post that as well. Followup is the key to everyone getting the whole story in any situation, so they can make their own decisions.

Personally, though I had my problems with Lee, NONE of it had anything to do with quality issues. I would never bash their quality nor their prices in any way. For myself, though, Lee didn't do setups exactly to my taste. Most people love his setups...I just didn't. No biggie, I'd just tweak the guitars when I got them home. And I DEFINITELY know and understand how travel and climate differences can affect guitars. My wife and I just moved cross-country, and though the guitars were just trucked and not even flown, one of them was pretty well out of whack, and needed a good deal of adjustments. Others were fine--just that one was really goofy--but it's a high-end guitar, just like the others. Just goes to show, really kinda depends from guitar to guitar, some of these things really get affected in transit.

As far as a company not paying for shipping both ways when there's a problem--that's very common, in many industries. Most warranties will require the owner to pay for shipping to the company for repairs. You've really got to fight a lot of the time to get the company to pay shipping both ways, usually having to talk to supervisors or managers. Well...hrm...Lee's an owner of GMW, there's nobody higher to go to. And, what's anybody gonna do, NOT order from GMW in the future? Why, then they'd be stuck paying Jackson Custom Shop style prices...and that's kinda the whole point of GMW, anyway--high quality at cheap price. Sure, it would be nice of him to pay shipping both ways, but since he doesn't HAVE to, he probably won't. Lee doesn't have much reason to change any policies until such time as his orders start to diminish heavily...and I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon.

Stu

P.S. Oh, this was rather minor, but someone mentioned having Floyd saddles installed incorrectly. I've received my guitars from GMW with Floyd saddles installed in configurations other than Low-Mid-High-High-Mid-Low before. Never mentioned them to Lee, because it was easy enough to fix myself, and he being the "expert", I initially always assumed he had some good reason for doing it that way. But...hrm...changing them to the standard configuration always made things better anyway, so I must assume they were just screwups.

[ May 03, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: StuTDavis ]

[Moregain]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Stu,
I agree with you. I feel people have the right to know the good and the bad.

I never bashed GMW, I simply stated the facts.
I did say that the guitar looked great, it just doesn't play worth a damn. As far as the neck moving during shipping, it did but I have no problem doing a truss adj. But that's not the problem here. The problem is with the radius on the Floyd not matching the radius on the fret board.The saddles are in the right position I checked them. They must need shimmed or there are a couple that are defective. Funny that Stu had a problem with saddles too.

What really upset me was Lee's attitude that there can't be anything wrong with the guitar.
Remember I even had a local pro tech check it out and confirm the problem. Mistakes happen and nobody is perfect I understand that, but he could have had a better attitude about it. I mean come on when A customer waits three months for a guitar gets it and has to send it From FL back to CA with a problem and has to pay shipping and be without it another three weeks you can't expect him to be happy.

Oh yea, I will follow up on this and let everyone know the out come good or bad.
Thanks for the replies!!!!!!!!!

[vitovanhalen]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

I'm getting in on this late, but...

I have 5 from him. On one, the back of the neck wasn't sanded very well (you could feel the walnut skunk and the ebony board), but after two minutes of sanding it was how it should be. Another time he put my volume switch where a kill switch was supposed to go and completely forgot the kill switch. He sent me the part and was very patient with my dumbass trying to solder the kill switch correctly. All in all, I love sending him a couple thousand dollars throughout the year.

[StuTDavis]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Moregain,

Exactly. You just stated your situation, and asked if other people had any problems. Kinda like "hey I ordered a blue Ford Taurus and received a red one--anybody else have that happen?". No biggie.

Personally, I'd say what Lee displayed to you is...well...Lee. After working with him both through email, phone, and in person with my guitars for a few years (a few years ago)...ayep...that's Lee. Other people might tell you different, but I'm a very down to earth kinda guy, from the South like you, used to the kind of humble respect that people here give and expect. And Lee ain't that. I'm sure you know what I mean. But, you either take it or leave it if you want to deal with him, and that's really the bottom line. In the end, I decided to leave it. I might not ever be able to afford another custom guitar, or custom work from anyone else, but that doesn't matter as much to me as some other things in life.

As for his not paying shipping both ways up front. Well, one thing you have to keep in mind is, while you might be completely right, honest and up-front about everything, not everyone is. If someone complained about something, then Lee paid up front for a shipping return, he might get it and find no problem with it, or find a problem he knows the customer caused. Then, what's he do? Now he's got to either eat the shipping or argue with you to send him a check to cover shipping both ways...and trust me, that's NOT going to go well, in any situation. Now, if he were what I'd call a "completely honest business", if he got the guitar and found there WAS a problem with it, he'd send you a check back for your shipping along with paying for it to go back to you. But, he's not necessarily obligated to do that. It's really crappy, but the general rule for returns for most everything with every company is: customer pays shipping to company, company pays shipping back to customer. Lee's got no manager or supervisor for you to appeal to or yell at...so you're just kinda stuck. Hopefully, he'll at least just calm down off his horse and treat you better the rest of the return.

As far as your buzzing, WHERE is it buzzing? Is the guitar a bolt-on or neck-through? Just curious...

Stu

[Moregain]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Wanted to post an update:
Lee has come around and is now being very helpful.
I convinced him that there is a problem and he is willing to work with me to get it solved. He is sending me new saddels for the Floyd. Hope this solves the problem. The guitar is extremely bright so he has agreed to trade out pups with me and send me a trim ring to float the pup instead of mounting it directly to the body which it is now. The body is alder don't know why it is so bright?
I'll post the outcome later. [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[RP]

Re: New GMW (Problems)

Glad it seems to be on the right track toward working out for you.