Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

[Toby]

Custom shop means a shop, where guitars are built to custom orer. We Charvel and Jackson enthusiasts are lucky that Charvel/Jackson has a real custom shop, where great Charvels and Jacksons are built to custom order exactly to the customers specs.

Some maufacturers put "custom shop" stickers on mass production guitars and basses, listed in the catalogs and available from stock, and sell them for increased prices. Impudently, these pseudo "custom shop" instruments are exorbitatly higher priced than real custom orders built by real custom shops. Maybe these instruments are made in the same shop where the custom orders are built, but this is not what "custom shop" means. Some of these pseudo custom shops are not able to accept custom orders.

What do you think about these pseudo custom shops?

[paddok]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Can you give an example of a guitar company that does this?

[Toby]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Take a look into the Fender and Gibson catalogs. There you'll find many production stock models with custom shop label.

Once I asked the Fender custom shop for a quote for a custom order of a replica of the 1970s Stratocaster. The quote was around $8,000.- But Fender said, that the custom shop cannot do 3 bolt neck joints (they can do this for the production models, but not for custom orders). They refused to oil finish the neck. And they also refused to do a dummy middle pickup like the ltd. edition Blackmore Signature model.

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

[ QUOTE ]

where great Charvels and Jacksons are built to custom order exactly to the customers specs.


[/ QUOTE ]

You can't ask for Strathead so what can I say about that.
Most of the Charvel enthusiasts want strathead customs, don't they?
[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
About Jackson, I will see how 2 of my custom orders will turn out.
I should have them within a month or so.

And about "these pseudo custom shops", Can you name which ones you are talking about?
[img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Carvin comes to mind - you can order anything you want, as long as it falls within production-model specs [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

And yeah that always bugged me about Fender and Gibson - if it's their own idea they'll slap "Custom Shop" on it and churn them out like hamburgers with every option available to them, but you try to order one and they say they can't do it. I think it's more a case of "won't do it" vs "can't do it" - you CAN'T do things that are physically impossible, you WON'T do things that CAN be done.

Another gripe I've got is Gibson's Relic'd 58's - I got this from a local guy:
A few years ago Gibson caught this guy aging new Les Pauls and even building new guitars to look exactly like '58/'59 LPs, and drug him to court. They offered him a deal - tell/show us how you did it, and tell us how many you did, and we'll drop the copyright charge, but you still have to serve the criminal charge (best I can remember - it was something like that where he'd still have to spend time in jail because the charges were already proven, but they'd drop the other lesser charge so he spends less time in jail).
Anyway, the guy agrees. So they asked him: "How'd ya do it?"
He says: "Simple; Gibson put out a life-sized poster of genuine 58 and 59 Les Pauls, and I compared the measurements to the real thing. Everything matched, so I started building and aging them."
Next they asked: "How many are out there?"
He said: "It's impossible to know, because I've been doing it for 20 years"

Years later, of course, Gibson turns around and puts out an entire collector's line of aged 58 and 59 LPs and sells them for how much? One of the Jimmy Page relics sold for $55,000!
That's ripping people off no matter who does it.

Newc

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Custom shop means a shop where you can walk in or call directly and able to get to talk with the man who builds your guitar and where you get to pick the wood you want for your guitar.
That is what I consider as REAL custom shop.

Filing up a custom order form over the internet and send it to a dealer,then to a rep,then to the bunch of builders, I wouldn't call it as a custom shop.That's just a custom order guitar.

Back in late 80's and early 90's, there was a ESP store on Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood.
Some of people here know the store for sure.
They had builders from Japan and you get to talk with them directly.
I was able to order several nice custom guitars(strat head with no logo) there and they built my guitars there as well.
I got to pick the body wood(uncut square piece of wood),fretboard and neck wood.
Then some parts from the cashier counter tables.
I went there almost everyday to see the process of building my guitars and able to point out what I want and nothing would go wrong in every detail.

The same goes to GMW.
I get to visit and pick the body I want.
I point my finger and tell Lee where my volume knob should be.
He will drill a hole right in front of me.
The same for the set up.
I receive my new guitar at his shop and After trying it,I can tell him to change few things such as string action,pickup height, he will do it right away.
He has hundreds of photos of the guitars HE actually built at his shop and I get to choose the color I want from these photos plus he has books of color samples.
You can really come up with your own color too.
He even calls couple of colors with my name because I was the one came up with the colors.
Some people here mentioned about that before.
Toru Blue or Toru Purple.
How cool is that?


I placed my Jackson custom shop and what I know is I wouldn't get to know how things are doing until the dealer gets the guitar from Jackson.
So only what I wish is I hope the guitar turns out 100% exactly as what I have on my mind, at least what I specified on my form.
It was not easy to order a guitar just by a order form with some example of pics and if this turns out not the way I specified, I would never order one anymore because it is frustrating.

[lerxstcat]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Carvin has always been a "semi-Custom Shop".
They offer you upgrade options on their basic models, so they're not a true Custom Shop in that regard. On the other hand, they'll build you a single-humbucker Superstrat with Floyd for hundreds less than the most basic USA Select Jackson. Too bad Jackson won't do that instead of making any change a Custom Shop issue. Personally I think offering MOP block inlays over dots for only $60 is very cool and reasonable. They just did a run of Pointy guitars for some customers including our own Chickenscratch, so they seem to listen more than Jackson does.

[Sinistas]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Newc, I know Carvin might not be a true Custom shop, but they've got TONS of options, and do a better job of giving their customers what they want than any other company out there right now (see: CT6, Pointy headstock option). In regards to this thread, Carvin's doing what you want Jackson to be able to do, except they don't have pointy bodies. *shrug*

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubbthreads/...art=1&vc=1

[JonnyJobe]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

I agree, I could never say anything negative about Carvin's practices. If You want the absolute most guitar for Your money, they are the ones to turn to. They have (somewhat) limited options, but at least they can do those 'little' changes for not a lot of money.

[pro-fusion]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

To summarize. The four levels of custom shops:

1. Total custom. Built to your specs with your personal involvement at every step of the process. GMW.

2. Manufacturer custom. Built to your specs, but with little/no customer involvement and using standardized processes. In other words, will build you a guitar shaped like the state of Massachusetts, but they'll do it their way. Jackson, ESP (nowadays).

3. Marginal custom. Use company's basic designs, but allow you to 'personalize' them with significant restrictions. Gibson, Fender.

4. Options list. Standard designs and a preset list of options with no permitted deviations. More like buying a car than a custom guitar. Carvin.

[toejam]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

Carvin kicks ass! They actually do offer plenty of deviations for something different (though, some are hidden options and not mentioned in the online or paper catalogs). You have a choice of many options, including different body woods, laminated bodies with different woods, maple, rosewood or ebony fretboard, choice of neck wood (maple, mahogany, alder, walnut, koa, five-piece laminated necks with any combo of these listed woods), hardware color, MOP or ablaone dot or block inlays (black dots only on maple boards), different pup wiring and control layouts, different Carvin pups, choice of no tone control, one humbucker option on any model, as well as H/S/H, H/H, H/S/S, H/H/H configuration (though, most of the wiring, pups, control changes fall under the "50 option" which is an extra $50 to give you what you want... e.g., a DC727 with a five-way blade switch for the two humbuckers instead of the typical three-way toggle, two volumes and two tone controls, etc.), rounded or sculpted body sides on most models, Floyd Rose, Wilkinson, TOM/stoptail, TOM/string-thru or hardtail bridges on most models. Not to mention the fact that they will paint your guitar ANY color you want as long as they can mix it with whatever colors they have available. If you want a gray or silverburst, they just mix white in with black to get you your desired shade. Choice of clear high gloss, matte satin gloss or oiled body/neck finishes are also a plus. You can't beat Carvin for their price. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

So if I want an Ultra V or V220 or X-220, and it's not shown in the catalog or website, I can still get it?

One thing I did like about Carvin (though never had the money for) was their neckthrough and body blank parts/kits. I just checked the site and they DO still (or again?) have them! AND you can get a blank paddlehead [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

I will definitely have to check into that as soon as I get outta this hole [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc

[toejam]

Re: Pseudo custom shops - the custom shop lie

[ QUOTE ]
So if I want an Ultra V or V220 or X-220, and it's not shown in the catalog or website, I can still get it?


[/ QUOTE ]
No, because they don't offer those shapes any more. A lot of people have been asking for them again, though, so maybe they'll add them back in the lineup in the future.

Ken has an account with Carvin and uses the neck blanks with paddleheads in his custom guitars. He's supposed to also get me a 24-fret bolt-on paddlehead (only 22-fretters are available to the public) for my Dinky body refin he'll be doing, and I'm going to have a reverse Strat headstock on it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]