When were Khalers first manufactured?

[lerxstcat]

Re: When were Khalers first manufactured?

I think a Kahler player stole Metalcop's woman, that's why he b1tches like a little girl about them every time a thread on them comes up.Each trem has some great points and some bad points. Each is good in its own way. This "girl trem" stuff sounds like 7th-grade schit-talk. And yeah, my first sentence of this post is the same thing. Maybe you'll realize how juvenile it is when it's coming back at you.

[Chuckracer]

Re: When were Khalers first manufactured?

ZERO. That is the answer to a lot of questions. Like, how many good guitar players does Jackson have as endorsees? Or, how many times I've heard a meaningful reason why Kahler's suck.

[/ QUOTE ]


He he he he he.....

[surfdork]

Re: When were Khalers first manufactured?

Obey the 3310. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[j2379]

Re: When were Khalers first manufactured?

could be because when the whole superstrat craze hit & every company was making there version it had to have a floyd or LIC floyd copy. Kahler then tried to make thier version of the floyd & market that instead of pushing & or refineing the flatmount. for years when the OFR was a KRAMER part only every other company used kahlers. most of the guitar companys i liked back then used kahlers, & back then i liked them. now i dont like them at all. ive owned a few kahler guitar recently & really couldnt get used to them again, i even sold off some very rare guitar because they had kahlers, something i will probably regret in the future.

[Carbuff]

Re: When were Khalers first manufactured?

I actually got an email recently stating that the kahler company was back in business and selling brand new stuff. Kinda expensive stuff. Heres the email I got with the link to the website.

Carbuff......
Kahler is back, check out my website below.
There is a ton of information, pass it around.
More to Come from Kahler Soon
Thanks

Anthony (Tony) Saccoia
Kahler Direct Agent
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: http://users.adelphia.net/~asaccoia/

[slo100]

The Thread That Could Have Been

Grandturk, before this thread turned into a Floyd vs. Kahler pissing match (how does that happen?), you had a great start to an interesting topic.

Anyhoo...David Story applied for the patent in August of 1982 and it was awarded in July of 1984. (Early Kahlers have the "Pat Applied For" stamp and later Kahlers have the patent # (4,457,201) with the initials "D.S." after them referring the the applicant/designer's initials).

I would say the first prototypes appeared in early 1982 sometime. As far as being installed as OEM I guess we can say late '82 early '83 but I would not expect any kind of real volume until later than that as production and marketing ramped up.

The US Patent Office is a great resource for questions like this, BTW. www.uspto.gov

The interesting thing to me is Gary Kahler's name is not mentioned anywhere in the documentation. My understanding is that Gary owned/owns A.P.M. (American Precision Metal Works) which manufactured the units so I guess his name became associated with the product. As we all know APM made all kinds of things but most famously golf clubs and Kahler trems. It is my understanding that many of the brass components used on guitars of the time like vintage trems, knobs, strap buttons, etc were manufactured by APM, also.

There is much more information to uncover in this area.

[ranalli]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

I had Les Paul Custom with a Kahler and that really was my dream guitar cause I always loved the way the Kahlers look and played on the early Def Leppard stuff....the drops are more subtle, you can use it for more of a vibrato then dive-bomb stuff.

I loved that guitar....but I couldn't get the Kahler to work to my satisfaction...I tried and tried but the roller balls just seemed to suck the sustain and punch and the strings always felt flimsy.....I didn't have replacement parts to try out but I really wanted to get that guitar working..it would have been perfect cause I loved the *feel* of the Kahler other than what I mentioned. I almost wish I would have kept that guitar and tried to find new parts

Another thing with Kahlers is tuning stability is MUCH better with a Floyd nut...that stupid locking nut behind the regular nut setup is dumb....doesn't fix the hang-up problem at all.

With that being said, if Kahler ever expects to sell those things they gotta lower the price....at over $300 that's just too expensive IMO.

I don't see a stud mount version on that website....are they going to do that one too??

[charvelguy]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

ouch..., I agree, good topic flame opinions aside.

[Grandturk]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

Thanks for the info.

I don't see why we all can't get along - Floyd and Kahler lovers living in harmony. I've got all kinds of trems - vintage, Kahler, Floyd - and they're all cool. Now Bigsby's on the other hand - I'll flame those useless hunks of junk all day long (no offense to Bigsby lovers).

[ranalli]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

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Now Bigsby's on the other hand - I'll flame those useless hunks of junk all day long (no offense to Bigsby lovers).

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I have to be honest, I can't stand Bigsbys either....I'd rather tie a boat anchor to my guitar.


Many people seem to like em though.

[Budman68]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

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I don't see a stud mount version on that website....are they going to do that one too??

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="aqua">From what I heard personally from Tony Saccoia, no. He tells me he is "THE" guy that Gary Kahler is dealing with and will be the "contact" man if you want to sell/deal the Kahlers or just outright buy them. They are made of different materials from the originals but I'm not sure what the quality is as I haven't tried one yet. There is only one model being built right now and they call it a "pro", BUT, it's doesn't use stainless steel rollers or cams, it uses brass.

As a side note, I can't remember where I read it but I think it was on this forum that a member had one of the new models and was very disappointed with the quality of it. Obviously everyone has their opinions but that would be ashame if the quality wasn't there because there are a lot of people looking forward to these new ones. I guess time will tell. </font>

[RR05xx]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

Yeah BUdman, that was me. I have one of the "newer" Kalhers that was made in the late 90s/early 00s on a 2001 ESP Hanneman model. ESP no longer uses these and provdies zero customer support (besides the screws that hold it down to the body).

The guitar itself is on a par with my SL2-H (and came stock with EMGs, which to me is a huge plus), but the newer "Kalher" flat mount on it has never worked properly no matter what I have tried. After comparing the two more closes, even thuoght the "newer" mnodel sues a slightly different shaped/sized base, the screw holes are in the same place, so I think I will be able to swap out an old Kalher for the new one (I am on a hunt) with the only real negagtive probably being causmetic close up as you may be able to tell that a change was made depending on the paint finish under the newer Kalher and how tightly it was screwed down.

I do not know how the late 90s/early 00s models compare with the lastest Kalhers to surface this year.

[Jim Shine]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

I do think there is room for improvement on the Kahler. It is a great unit as-is that could be made even better with a little tweaking. It would be nice if they made some revised units that will retrofit the original routes and holes.

[ranalli]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

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I do think there is room for improvement on the Kahler. It is a great unit as-is that could be made even better with a little tweaking. It would be nice if they made some revised units that will retrofit the original routes and holes.

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This is what I'm thinking too. It really is a great idea with a lot of versatility as a trem but it needs to be tweaked or slightly changed to get the "kinks" out IMO.

I don't know if making them out of brass now is better or worse than stainless steel but I guess time will tell. I would think whatever the harder metal is would be better for sustain and tone but I think the real issue is how the roller-balls are done/designed.

[Jim Shine]

Re: The Thread That Could Have Been

They made them in both steel and brass even back in the 80's. The brass was the standard and the steel was the professional. To my ears both sound good and have their place. I have found on some dark sounding guitars with brass units switching to steel helps brighten them up and adds some definition. Likewise overly shrill or bright guitars can be warmed up with a brass unit. But this is on a guitar to guitar basis, not a generalization.