My GMW experience,

[Soloist1]

Re: My GMW experience,

Thank yourself chief. I didn't put you in the place you are now. You did. You are the one that also decided to post your whine. Did you think every single person would line up against GMW because they saw it your way? I don't take pictures of guitar nut areas. As long as the neck adjusts I'm not particularly concerned with their appearance. Humans aren't perfect. Thus the reason guitars made by them aren't either. I hope you don't hold everything to such a high standard in life, because your going to shorten yours by worrying about it to much. My point is Lee should have been contacted first. Regardless of whether you sent it back or not. You didn't even see what he thought you should do about the problem. But like a lot of people on this planet your not willing to accept responsibility for the mistakes you made during this fiasco.

[paddok]

Re: My GMW experience,

Just a thought on the inlays. I'm staying impartial in this, but just adding my two cents. Word from Lee's mouth is that there are certain Jackson things they just couldn't do. Especially at the time this guitar was ordered, and that "If I want a Jackson, I should order a Jackson." The inlays look great to me, even if they arn't the exact same as the Jackson sharkfins.

[charvelguy]

Re: My GMW experience,

[ QUOTE ]
Thank yourself chief. I didn't put you in the place you are now. You did. You are the one that also decided to post your whine. Did you think every single person would line up against GMW because they saw it your way? I don't take pictures of guitar nut areas. As long as the neck adjusts I'm not particularly concerned with their appearance. Humans aren't perfect. Thus the reason guitars made by them aren't either. I hope you don't hold everything to such a high standard in life, because your going to shorten yours by worrying about it to much. My point is Lee should have been contacted first. Regardless of whether you sent it back or not. You didn't even see what he thought you should do about the problem. But like a lot of people on this planet your not willing to accept responsibility for the mistakes you made during this fiasco.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm trying hard not to take sides, but consider that it seems the issue with the nut was revealed because of the playability problems/buzzing..which led to the fret level isues etc. The truss not being centered seems just another aggravation on a workmanship argument. How much of one is moot. It's there, so it presented itself when trying to resolve another issue.

I'm not sure if GMW has any workmanship warranty, nor if they have any service center providers authorized to do warranty work in other countries. I doubt they are that big of a company.

This does raise some questions for me tho. Does Lee and/or Jackson custom shop route the fretboard for fret slots and inlays by hand or using a CNC?
Is this done in Lee's shop or outsourced?
anyone? I would assume Lee's shop, but someone here wrote Lee outsourced for necks.. does that include the fretboard and inlay work?

For the amount of aggravation, I'd be happy with a Warmoth parts custom painted the way I want it.

[neilli]

Re: My GMW experience,

I'm starting to see both sides of this - initally, I must admit I was seeing things wholely from Vic's side as I would have been pissed as well.

The problems with the guitar shouldn't have been there and I think we can all agree with that.

However, Vic should have talked to Lee straight away about the problems. When it comes to it, Lee doesn't care that Vic is in Australia or I'm in the UK - If something wasn't right Lee should have been given chance to fix it, as it he would have been if the customer lived next door. OK, some of these issues should not have got through quality control but they did and I personally doubt that Lee thought he'd just try to sneak something through.

I've always found Lee good to work with and two of my favourite guitars are GMWs. Yes, he can be a little curt at times, and I admit I've not had to face him down about any problems, but we all have our bad days, especially when we're up to our ears in work. I couldn't give a sh*t if he doesn't make everything himself (though i am curious who does!) cos the guitars he's built for me are fantastic.

I hope this gets resolved in way that everyone can live with - If I was in Vic's position, I'd suggest that Lee provides another neck at cost price (lower spec'd if neccesary) and bring an end to this sad tale.

These are just my thoughts though.....

[VitaminG]

Re: My GMW experience,

The issue with the truss rod isn't merely a cosmetic one. It's not just screw counting, or an anal fixation on perfect fit & finish. The truss rod being off centre has meant that the Floyd nut can't be installed properly, and actually sits too far to the bass side. For the nut to be installed in the correct position, the bass side screw would need to be angled to clear the truss rod. I don't know what sort of other problems that may cause, with fitting the nut locks or whatever.

Time and again I've seen people defend flaws like this with the old chestnut "that's what you get when you buy a proper, hand-made guitar". At what price point will someone actually build you a perfect guitar?

Vic called me at work the day this guitar finally arrived. I noticed over the phone that he seemed a little flat about it, especially considering he had waited so long for it. I thought he'd be bouncing off the walls with excitement. He mentioned that it looked absolutely stunning, but that it didn't play real well. But he'd tweak the truss rod when he got home (it had just travelled across the planet after all) and it should play just fine, as per GMW's stellar reputation around the JCF. It was after he was unsuccessful in working out the fret buzz issues himself that he finally took it to a tech to have it looked at & discovered the problems with the fret job, as per his first post about his problems.

And as rhoads56 said, postage from here to the States costs more than a fret job. I know that Vic wasn't happy about the additional cost, but I think he decided to wear that cost rather than shipping the guitar back to Lee. Of course, that was before the other issues came to light.

[shreddermon]

Re: My GMW experience,

Vic, perhaps a compromise would be for you to suggest that GMW replace the fretboard only? That would address the fret seating issues, if any. And a nut shelf could be added in the process. Also, this approach would avoid GMW's issue of not being able to do a new pointyhead neck. And, if you're really that unhappy with the sharkies, suggest to Lee that you can live with the new f'board having dots, instead. ...Just trying to suggest some middle ground that, pehaps, both parties can live with. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

You'd probably be without the guitar for a similar period of time as a full neck replacement w/sharkies. Which you're probably not going to get anyway, because of the pointyhead issue, etc.

As to your other birdseye neck'd guitar. Yes, gorgeous also. [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] Who knows exactly what little things make figured necks move when and how they do? But that guitar didn't travel to a different continent and climate. So, who knows?

Vic, I'm not taking sides against you, bro. As I said, perhaps the guitar really is that f**ked up. I don't know one way or the other. But, once we're unhappy with something and that viewpoint festers for long enough, it's very easy for our emotions to take over and lead us to find more and more seeming problems with that thing in other areas. I've certainly done that a few times myself.

Good luck, bro.

[zeegler]

Re: My GMW experience,

Assuming everything Vic says is true, I would be pissed as well. At the very least, Lee should have gone out of his way to fix the fretwork. The fact that he didn't even want to hear about it says a lot about his customer service practices. I would definitely think twice now about dealing with GMW.

[Soloist1]

Re: My GMW experience,

Jackson's have the same problem with the nut most of the times. I have some that are off a bit. Look I get as ticked about non perfection as anybody. I'm not trying to bust Vic's balls. I'm trying to state the facts. A) being Jackson has the same exact issues. And B) that he really needed to contact Lee immediately about the problems.

To me in the pic that looks straight down on the nut area the route for the truss rod looks centered. The truss rod itself is over toward one side of the route. But there is a degree of movement the rod has at the adjustment. I bet if you loosen the truss rod all the way you can push it over to the other side of the route also. I think the nut thing is something with the Floyd nuts themselves. I have 5 Jacksons all from the custom shop. Not one is perfect. The nuts all are to one side or another by about a millimeter or less like Vic's.

Also as I mentioned before my shark fins aren't perfect either. So I really can't see having those changed either. And to me a neck shim is acceptable also. If the neck had the problem with the fret slots from GMW I agree that GMW should have fixed it free of charge. But the problem is that Vic took it to those two other places first. That pretty much voids any type of warranty no matter who it is.

I'm very surprised Lee recessed the body and had Dan refinish it again. But I can understand why he doesn't think he should have to fix any of the neck problems. I'm with shreddermon on the neck fixes. I'd call Lee and see what he would do. Fret board replacement is definitely an option. If he'll do it is the question. After having those other folks messing with the frets and what not I'm kind of doubting he'll do that free. Also your making another mistake on the whole return shipping thing. Because you had someone go and pick it up Lee doesn't owe you anything for return shipping.

Best of luck with it. But I really don't see Lee fixing the neck issues for free. And because of the circumstances I don't think he should have to. I understand the shipping cost issues. But if you called Lee he may have had you send the neck only and fix it from that end. It would have been a lot cheaper to just ship a neck instead of the entire guitar.

[Endrik]

Re: My GMW experience,

If some Jacksons' inlays and truss rods aren't pefect, that doesn't give a custom guitar builder any excuse to build a sh1ty guitar and treat customers like garbage.

[hippietim]

Re: My GMW experience,

[ QUOTE ]
Just a thought on the inlays. I'm staying impartial in this, but just adding my two cents. Word from Lee's mouth is that there are certain Jackson things they just couldn't do. Especially at the time this guitar was ordered, and that "If I want a Jackson, I should order a Jackson." The inlays look great to me, even if they arn't the exact same as the Jackson sharkfins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then Lee should have said he couldn't do the correct sharkfins when it was ordered. Saying he couldn't do it after the fact is bullshit.

[thebisch]

Re: My GMW experience,

*****A few die-hard Charvel guys have had issues with Lee but 90% of the people here who have had work done by Lee gave him nothing but praise.*****

For such a small, low volume custom shop, that's not a good number at all IMO, if true.

[Hellraiser6502]

Re: My GMW experience,

Please note, I'm not taking sides here...Only looking at it objectively.

I've known Lee since 1986 when he was still working out of a TINY apartment(!) in Pasadena CA. Over the last 20 years I have spent, as a conservative estimate, about $40k with Lee for all manner of guitar related things...new guitars, refins, fretwork, necks, assembly, wiring...you name it.

I'd say I am 99.9% happy with everything I've ever gotten from him. True, there have been minor issues here & there & even a difference of opinion or two...once even a downright NASTY verbal confrontation. Through it all (again, 20 years worth of business here) Lee has never been unfair or totally unreasonable.

It's been said Lee is gruff or short and that's totally accurate...he would be the first to admit it. One thing I can tell you is, trying to strongarm or dictate ANYTHING to him will get you a brick wall every time. Most people don't know but Lee has a PHD in Chemistry (his chosen field before the guitar thing) and takes classes in advanced calculus & Physics...just for FUN! I mention it because he is very analytical and logical by nature.

Neal Moser does (and has always done)all of Lee's fretwork and I've never had any issues there. I can't think of anyone whom I'd rather have do the frets on any of my guitars. Neal is A WORLD CLASS luthier. I can't understand how the frets on your guitar could have been that bad.

Neck shims are perfectly acceptable for bolt-on guitars and imperfect sharkfins on Jacksons are as common as fleas on a dog.

Vic, I know you don't want to hear it but you made a FATAL mistake by not contacting Lee right away with your issues and I cannot see how being in Australia makes any difference...The extra cost & time for shipping etc. involved is unfortunate but...it's not his fault you live in Australia!

I'm sure the story would have been different if you had contacted him first instead of having others work on your guitar.

If this results in any loss of business for Lee, I would be personally glad...only because I will be able to get my stuff done quicker, like the old days before the internet!

Sorry to hear about all the trouble.

[Metalcop]

Re: My GMW experience,

I just read a couple of pages of the later posts, and re-read my initial post. I have to admit, I too got my torch and pitchfork out a bit prematurely. As I said earlier, I own a pile of GMW's and I have always been 100% satisfied with GMW's work. The attitude I can do without, but I am willing to put up with it for the superior product. After reading the lengthy discussions for and against GMW, I have to agree with some of the things said in Lee's defense. The inlays aren't Jackson, never will be. They look the same as on my Jackson's and even my $3K custom has filler and glue around the sharkies. Seems like the only real issue is the playability, caused by the locking clamp and the frets. The neck shim is a non-issue, some Fenders/Charvels have them, some don't. If you want a non-recessed Floyd, in my experience, you have to have the shim. The nut and the fretwork should be taken care of, free of charge to you, including back shipping, which, to my knowledge, Lee has never paid. The fact that Lee is willing to recess the Floyd and even do a spot refin is giving you a lot, that job would probably cost in the $3-$500 range if you were simply paing to have the work done. This whole situation is just bad, I don't think that Genebaby will ever be satisfied with this guitar, and Lee/GMW will never go to the lengths that he wants. I hope that this can be resolved so that both sides are satisfied. Just for the record, I will be continuing to patronize GMW, while I haven't spent $40K there (!! Curt) I have easily spent $12K. (!)

[Genebaby]

Re: My GMW experience,

Just let me quickly state that it's not how the sharkfins were installed that is an issue, it's the actual fins themeselves. We've all seen varying amounts of filler "around" our sharkfins, this guitar has normal amounts of that around the inlays. The problem is the shape and size of them. Not only are they undersized (and every mm counts with these baby's, they are meant to look hot) but they aren't straight, and they don't scale in size progressively as they go down the neck. This is tantamount to being told you can't have the 6mm dots on your Charvel, we don't do them, the dots you have are fine.(or whatever size, I can't recall right now but I've been guilty of measuring the dots and the 12fret spacing for when I had another guitar made).

This, again, is the first sharkfin.



In regards to lies? Why would I lie? If I felt at all that the guys who worked on the guitar here did anything bad at all to it I would simply have not mentioned them, but what you got was the trail of events. I certainly wouldn't have got them to bring it to Lee. He could have discussed it with them if he hadn't felt like getting rid of them and being on his way.

In regards to me not contacting Lee, I assure you you'd have done the same in my situation. Sending it back is a huge thing, and it would be the whole thing, not just the neck, because the body needed work and if it was going back I was going to get the proper case too, so it was in for a penny, in for a pount. Soon it will just be the neck that concerns me. I would rather not have a nut with a Frankenstein install with screws going everywhich way. I want a new neck with correct Floyd features, ie, the platform.

Also, it's not Lee's fault that I live in Australia, but is it my fault that he's stubborn and hard to deal with? (and I say that with nothing but Love). It's not my fault but it's my problem now. If GMW can't produce a decent pointy headstock neck then he should have told me so when I was refused other options. I'm not wishy-washy, I know what I want and I know how it should look.

[Genebaby]

Re: My GMW experience,

Just let me quickly state that I do not think in this day and age it is satisfactory to get the size of shim I got. A bit of card, "possibly", but the one in this was just wrong. My Model 88 has no shim, the Bullseye RI has no shim. It's just an angle you have to cut. Here there was no angle. Still, it's a moot point now as the Floyd will be recessed to go with the neck pocket. Yes, that's decent of him, thank you Lee, I'm much happier to have the shim gone. He's not addressing the nut, as that means a new neck, and he's not addressing the frets as that means a new board with more inlay work and so on. If I do get a new neck, I just want to make sure the inlays come from Custom Inlay, I can get them sent over.