My GMW experience,

[sevser]

Re: My GMW experience,

Well I'm behind ya Vic...All the shark fins in my CS Jackson are nice and straight with no filler. I'm damn sure the nut is screwed into actual wood in all my Floyded guitars too! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Shimming the neck in guitar Custom made for a non recessed floyed is lazy. Why wouldn't you rout the pocket accordingly?

[sully]

Re: My GMW experience,

well, i don't think that we'll all agree on the shim vs. no shim issue, but ranali, gmw isn't like a warmoth kind of operation.

[ranalli]

Re: My GMW experience,

[ QUOTE ]
well, i don't think that we'll all agree on the shim vs. no shim issue, but ranali, gmw isn't like a warmoth kind of operation.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well that's good to know he makes his stuff from scratch then....I think that's admirable from a craftmanship standpoint.

[hippietim]

Re: My GMW experience,

Why get hung up on the Warmoth thing? I have no idea who makes necks for GMW. I don't really care a lot.

If you call up Lee and say you want an SD replica single hum v-trem guitar and he delivers it to you why do you care who makes the necks and bodies? Think about it. A single hum guitar costs about $1000 from GMW - no way are those necks and bodies all hand made/shaped at that price. So either way it's going to be made by a CNC machine - what difference does it make if Lee pushes the button to start the machine or someone at an OEM shop does it? I know I don't care.

And I'm not defending what's going on with Lee and Vic.

[paddok]

Re: My GMW experience,

Oh god, I just bought my third GMW. Major GAS attack.

[iron_monkey]

Re: My GMW experience,

About 2 years ago I had GMW build me a Charvel-style guitar. I basically ordered a guitar that was "right up their alley" to make. It worked out fine, but I think the "simple custom" nature of it helped.

When I was trying to decide on recessed vs. non-recessed, I asked if they used a shim in the neck pocket or cut an angled neck pocket. Lee said they shimmed the pocket in the non-recessed case. I chose recessed.

I had a 1 11/16 rosewood fretboard hard rock maple neck spec'd for the guitar. They built the wrong neck at first -- they used birds eye maple for the neck and offered to let me either keep that one (no extra upcharge) or wait a little longer to get the regular neck I spec'd. I waited a little longer to get the neck as originally ordered.

I like the guitar and it lived up to the reputation of GMWs I had gotten from this board.

In the case of guitar in this thread, it seem like a simple fix for Lee. The right thing to do from a customer service standpoint is just make a new neck that is perfect. A new neck is probably cheaper for Lee than even one lost sale from someone reading this thread.

It is really hard to hear that GMW might be slipping their quality. There are a lot of other luthiers out there. I'm lucky enough to have a master luthier, who has built guitars for all the greats and who lead the Gibson Custom shop (when it was good) for a long time, located just 10 minutes from where I work. But he doesn't build Charvel or Jackson style guitars. And he doesn't do repair work.

Best of luck and I hope it gets worked out to your satisfaction.

[Twisteramps]

Re: My GMW experience,

Let's not jump on guys who build guitars from 'parts' either... I've seen some really nice parts put together wrong and made into a piece of shit, and parts that are of average quality assembled and tweaked to being a great guitar. Whoever assembles and sets up a guitar has more to do with how well it plays and sounds than whoever made the parts.

Pete

[quiksilver]

Re: My GMW experience,

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Based on 20+ years of collecting Jacksons, I STRONGLY disagree that excess glue on the binding, errant metallic flake in the paint, cheaper wood requiring constant neck adjustments, and misaligned pickups are hallmarks of Jacksons. [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

I also just inspected my current Jacksons (2001 Made in USA SL2H, 1991 MIJ AT Pro, 2000 MIJ SL4), and the inlays on each are PERFECT. Straight lines, no visible glue or filler. The nuts are centered and installed perfectly, too.



[/ QUOTE ]

Did I say it's a hallmark? And did I say it's on every guitar for the past 20 years? That's the way my newest custom is. The inlays are perfect because the newer ones are cut by laser. It's a hallmark for the older 89 custom Jackson's I have. But none of them have the glue on the binding problem or the necks that need truss rod adjustments more than the others. If you don't see any fill around any inlays you aren't looking hard enough. All have a degree of fill. Also all the guitars you mentioned above that you say are perfect are laser inlays. I was refering specifically to hand done inlay work. And I don't have one guitar that has the nut centered dead nuts perfect. A millimeter or less off isn't that big of a deal in my opinion. But I'm not the one that is unhappy with that. I'm just making the comparison to a handmade custom shop Jackson. So you can take your little bullshit graemlin and stick it back where it belongs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, sorry if using the word "hallmark" offended you, but I am not limited to your vocabulary when discussing your [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] posts. When I quote you, you’ll be able to tell, as I will use the quotation tool, as shown above, or quotation marks, like the little nugget shown below of your "wisdom" (quotes used for sarcasm that time - I'm not claiming you said "wisdom"): [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

“Maybe you would have been happier with a Jackson. Just be prepared to be unhappy with excess glue on the binding, metallic flake that doesn't belong in the paint because they don't clean their guns enough, cheaper wood that requires constant truss rod adjustments and pickups that aren't aligned properly.”

You clearly tell Genebaby to "be prepared to be unhappy" with these kinds of flaws if he goes with "a Jackson." My experience says you’re WRONG, and while I hate to inspire you into more fits of rage, I won’t sit back and let you slander Jackson’s quality with false information, just because you’re inexplicably angry with Genebaby and can’t construct a truthful argument to support your rant.

But I see that in your clumsy, backpedaling way, you’re coming around, as you're now reducing your claim to say that these flaws are present on YOUR Jacksons. OK. Big difference. Tell people to expect these flaws if they buy YOUR guitars all you want, just don’t tell 'em to "be prepared" for these kinds of flaws if they buy "a Jackson" in general and expect silent assent from everyone in the JCF, when it's populated by people who know better.

[Soloist1]

Re: My GMW experience,

Right. The point I was trying to make obviously flew right over your head. So whatever. With your eyesight that shouldn't surprise me.

[txcharvel]

Re: My GMW experience,

[ QUOTE ]
Oh god, I just bought my third GMW. Major GAS attack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you get something on an impulse buy when you picked up Genebaby's guitar [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

pics...pics... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[atomic charvel guy]

Re: My GMW experience,

let's all get together, with Lee, take alot of drugs and go bowling. we'll hash this thing out one way or another.

[ranalli]

Re: My GMW experience,

[ QUOTE ]
Let's not jump on guys who build guitars from 'parts' either... I've seen some really nice parts put together wrong and made into a piece of shit, and parts that are of average quality assembled and tweaked to being a great guitar. Whoever assembles and sets up a guitar has more to do with how well it plays and sounds than whoever made the parts.

Pete

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't think anyone is jumping on the guys that build parts guitars but let's look at it for what it is really. You're absolutely right....there are some fantastic guitars that are built from parts no doubt....Fender does this daily and other builders do as well, however, connecting two pieces of pre-made wood is hardly stunning worksmanship/luthiery(sp) IMO....and if you have to add shims that's embarrassing.


On the subject of shims, can you imagine if furniture dealers were allowed these silly "tolerances" that some guitar assemblers have?? In the case of most pieces of furniture, you aren't connecting two pieces of wood...you're connecting at least TWENTY. And if each piece was as fouled up as the two on a simple guitar then you're in trouble. Drawers wouldn't shut all the way, it won't stand straight, ends wouldn't meet right, wouldn't be sturdy, etc.

Those guys are pretty much dead on every time and with MANY more pieces of wood to construct that are sometimes way more flimsy....which is why although I believe assemblers should get *some* credit, it's hardly difficult when everything is done for you and it should be right considering it's only connecting two pieces.


What's more embarrassing for parts builders is letting bad guitars out because of poor quality parts. I could see a luthier going through all the laborious hours of constructing a neck thru instrument only to find that a few frets and their slots are fouled up and instead of trashing a few weeks of work, try to push it through instead because they have so many hours already invested in it.

But when you're using parts you don't need to toss away hardly any work, if the neck is fine use it, if not, then don't...hardly any time is wasted so there's no reason not to have an excellent instrument every time.

[jgcable]

Re: My GMW experience,

I have seen many guitars with shims but I will never agree that they are anything but improper workmanship. They are necessary after certain types of bridge mods though. I know alot of players (including myself) who sometimes insert a shim to get a certain angle on the neck but I wouldn't want to order a $1000+ guitar and find a shim in the neck unless I requested it. To eliminate the need for a shim you need only to angle the neck cavity route slightly.
Inlays that are cut crooked and filled in with wood putty is slipshod. A trussrod cavity that is routed off center is just plain careless because although it could have been missed when the fretboard was attached it would have been TOTALLY obvious when the Floyd nut was installed. They just boxed your guitar up and shipped it out with their fingers crossed that it would never be heard from again. WRONG.

[charvelguy]

Re: My GMW experience,

I agree, it is beyond a workmanship issue as well.. this goes into inspection issue realm as well. Aesthetically, the guitar is stunning but the case issue and the time issue is also indicative of something seems amiss.
It may be presumptuous of me, but I'd lay odds they knew of some issues with this given the response. I certainly hope he doesn't act this way with all of customers and it sounds like he doesn't but given his attitude that has permeated this, it seems this is going beyond 'just having a bad day'

Who's name is on the headstock or those who represent final say in that name bear the burden for final inspection or entrusting someone to be of thier standards in final inspection.. it isn't like this is a huge company.
I think it is agreed tho the real sticky issue in this is the third party.

Having been in that situation with differing circumstances, I'd be suprised if Lee took any responsibility for any workmanship that occured outside his shop and at this point that is going to difficult to prove without someone pointing fingers at someone else other than themselves.
I'm not one who deals well with a "I don't give a shit" attitude after spending a significant amount of money to provide a product. Shit happens, but when it does you should take accountability for it otherwise it will evetually lead to hurting your reputation.

[Genebaby]

Re: My GMW experience,

Yes the shim wasn't great, but the shim of shame should no longer be a problem with the Floyd being recessed.

In other news, I've come to realise that Lee will never do anymore work on the neck in regards to the nut and the fretboard. He doesn't care how much I complain, or whose opinions I garner, it won't happen. He just won't do it.

Thus I have talked with my guy here and we will order a new fretboard with sharkfins, he'll install it and try and do something with the nut area too, possibly make the platform, but he reckons he can do a good job of it. He offered to take care of it last year but I felt problems of that magnitude were not his to fix, but that's the way things go. After Paddok picks up the guitar and checks it out for me, Lee will send it back and we'll get to work finishing it off. Not an ideal solution but I've paid too much already to have a guitar I'm not happy with, so it will have to be done.

This is my GMW experience. Yes they do awesome work, there are thousands of guitars that prove that point, where all the little things are done right and the owner is happy and jazzed that the control cavity is the right shape, that the switches are in the right place, that their Floyd nut most probably has a platform.

There is nothing wrong with guys that put guitars together from parts. If the parts are good and they set them up well, who cares where they come from? It's like Milk? We don't know where Milk comes from, but we still drink it, it's Milk, it just needs to be white. Country folk might have an idea, but they ain't tellin'. Anyway, I digress. As long as you get the guitar you asked for, it doesn't really matter, but if you have problems, hope who you chose is willing to listen.