Musikraft San Dimas replica

[XSSIVE]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

John, i'm ready to order when the strat heads are ready to be made as others have mentioned that they are also. i know what i want and i will wait for this one special charvel. i'll be honest, i own parts mutts that look like fenders and charvels and a mix of the two and these are my main guitars out of my 23 guitars. however there is one certain strat head charvel that i would love to own. even i, a person who loves to build his own guitars from parts wont copy this one since it's my holy grail guitar and needs to be a real strat head charvel. my painter offered to do the paintjob but i wont do it b/c this deserves to be a real charvel not a clone. so, i'll wait on the option for you guys to build it for me with a strat head and a legit charvel logo on the headstock and once that can be done my order will be in!

-Mike

[Venomboy]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

I'm going to get a Ed Roman made BC Rich replica and put a Charvel logo on it! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've been a fan of Charvels since I first saw them in a catalog in 1982 or so. If I did get a replica made, I'd probably logo it. No deep reasons. Just that it would finish the picture for me. I'd probably include some sort of markings in the neck pocket or control cavity saying it wasn't a real Charvel.

If I sold it, I'd tell the seller it wasn't a real Charvel. After that, it's out of my hands.

If I was in the market for a new Strat head Charvel, I couldn't bring myself to pay $3k for one. I'd pay that to Neal Moser for one of his guitars though.

[Evol]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

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You guys are assuming that you are the majority. While I appreciate the Charvel and Jackson fans on here, you are a small part of the buying public.

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True enough,however think about it,are we alone in how we feel? Do you think the majority of Charvel/Jackson players don't want the same things? I know several Charvel players that have nothing to do with this board or the internet in general who LOVE their guitars and would like nothing more than to have the option to get what they want on new ones.

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I asked the questions I asked to see what kind of responses I would get. For the most part, the answers have been pretty self-centered "I want something and I can't have it NOW, so to get back at Fender, I'm going to buy it from someone else".

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Dude,you're talking about musicians here,even worse GUITAR players,of course they seem self-centered! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
But,when you're the one with the dough and want something particular (I know it's a shock,musicians being anal about their gear) then this can be expected.Personally I think Charvel is missing out on quite a bit of sales due to the holdup with giving players what they really want on their guitars.


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I have to look at Charvel as a GLOBAL brand that (whether you see it or not) is unknown among 12-25 year olds. Ask a 12 year old who EVH is....I bet more that 50% have no idea. Ask them about Charvel guitars....I bet 80+% have never heard of them. Also, many players 25-50+ who knew Charvel in the past think they are long gone or only make import crap.


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I see nothing wrong with catering to several demographics within the same brand,lots of companies do this.I don't think I've met many people who actually OWNED a charvel that thought it was crap,except when the Charvettes (ugh) came out and even the salesmen in my local area were telling people that they sucked,that's bad,very bad.
The imports that came out were good quality for the price,and just look and how many are still floating around and being played. If nothing else they make for great gigging guitars and backups to the USA's.


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The Charvel brand is being re-born after many years of little to no marketing and the Charvette debacle. It has to gain an identity of it's own before we begin to consider making it a Fender headstock guitar with cool Charvel features.

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Hmm,maybe those things WOULD give it back it's identity???? Could it really be so simple?

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If you want to re-logo or put a rip-off Charvel logo on a "replica", I can't stop you. Those that put a Charvel logo on a piece of crap or even a decent guitar, only serve to damage the brand in the long run. Anyone who has experience in marketing a brand, product brand management, or has worked in a business in which brand names are affected will understand this and agree with me.

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I see both sides of this,if someone is selling one of these logoed guitars as a Charvel then yes,it IS hurting the company/brand,someone playing it at home and just plain likes their replica then good for them.
Me personally I would NEVER put a Charvel logo on my GMW just because I appreciate the craftsmanship that was put into making such a great instrument and am proud to support their company by having their logo on the guitar.Hopefully Charvel will soon allow me to build a replica of my GMW [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


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Please understand that I'm not slamming anyone on here. You all have been open and honest with your replies to my questions, so I am giving you the same benefit. I want Charvel to become a well known, kick ass guitar brand that has longevity. Adding the Fender headstock to the list of options ASAP just to make some people on the JCF happy will not help me reach my goal.


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Again here you're assuming that only JCF'ers are the one s who would like the option of a strat headstock,and I have to disagree. Like I said earlier in my post the majority of Charvel players/buying public are not members here,however they are no different in what they like about the brand than we are.




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Based on the input and comments here, IF we do add the Fender headstock as an option, I will expect to see orders from each of you who have claimed you'd buy it immediately. Just like Santa, I'll be keeping a list!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Mine is ready to go as are others,and I hope this does happen soon,as it doesn't make much sense to license out the headstocks to parts makers while not even making it an option on the actual production/custom instruments where I'm willing to bet my entire ass that more money would be made off a whole guitar than the small license fee from a parts replica.

[JBall008]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

As stated earlier, thanks JCMktgGuy for your thoughts on the subject and your position is duly noted. Getting back to the "fake" logo thing, though. Just who are we hurting by throwing a logo on a parts mutt? I mean, if I've got, say 600-700 dollars burning a hole in my pocket (I have kids, so, of course, that would never happen!), why not order from Musikraft, Warmoth, etc, to basically piece together a "custom" guitar. Or are we supposed to throw that money at one of the 50 models of Mexican strats that don't really seem all that different? I know what I would choose, and if I throw a Charvie decal on it, it only reminds me of a great guitar brand.....

I don't really think it's trying to "get back" at Fender. And if you take into consideration that we at this forum are "a small segment", then it really shouldn't matter what we do, in terms of "modifying" a guitar with a decal.

Just my two pennies;

[Chrisb]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

I've got a San Dimas Exotic (strathead) already specced out and ready to go, just waiting on you guys [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I'm in retail myself so I understand the marketing aspect of this. I work with our marketing department all the time and developing our own product (with our logo etc). So I agree to a large extent with most of what you said including the notion that you may not want to jump straight in with the stratheads-on-custom option. I am not saying I understand why you don't want to, but alot of time marketing strategies are driven by factors "outsiders" won't understand or see. So I am patient, in point of fact at this point in time I can't afford another custom anyways, with one on the way and not being a "money" collector, I have to take it one at a time. But its next on my hit list.

I have to say though John that I don't think its self centeredness, and I don't think people are trying to get back at Fender, well most anyways(there are always exceptions). Considering how long some of these people have been collecting charvels I can appreciate their anxiety. I think in alot of cases people just don't think about the business side of things. I don't think there is real malice here often, that doesn't make it right but its at least understandable. Chuck is a good example, as he said upthread this discussion has given him some new perspective on Charvel logo's. If I didn't have my background in business I likely would have already slapped a Jackson or Charvel logo on my warmoth, not knowing any better. Ignorance doesn't necessarily excuse things like this but hopefully it goes some ways to explaining John why things like this are happening. Maybe even this will give you some insight on how to combat this down the road. Hopefully this thread has been a learning experience for both sides!

Myself, I am relatively new to this game so maybe thats why I am more content to wait, but rest assured you will see a WO with my name on it sometime in the not to distant future [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As for the strathead prices, I had no interest in the EVH guitars and the Anniversary guitars I felt were to expensive. Don't get me wrong they are fantastic guitars but that same guitar would be a fair shot cheaper even from the jackson custom shop with a pointy headstock. Correct me if I am wrong of course. I agree with most here, the price should be not much more than any other custom shop guitar. I can understand some sort of upcharge for a strathead since there are licensing fees involved, but it shouldn't be too outrageous. How much would I pay for a strat head stock in upcharge? Maybe 100 extra? Of course we lack the background on this one, and thats probably not something you can give us in your position, but thats my two cents on the cost issue.

[Markus]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

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I asked the questions I asked to see what kind of responses I would get. For the most part, the answers have been pretty self-centered "I want something and I can't have it NOW, so to get back at Fender, I'm going to buy it from someone else".


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It kind of makes sense that it is self-centered. It is our money were spending.

-Mark

[Chuckracer]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

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The Charvel brand...has to gain an identity of it's own before we begin to consider making it a Fender headstock guitar with cool Charvel features.

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It seems to me there is still an assumption being made that buyers of $1500+ dollar guitars can't read the headstock and may not know what they are looking at/playing/buying.

For twenty years or more, there have been literally hundreds of different guitars available with that headstock, yet I've never heard of a Fender Custom Shop buyer walking out of a store with a Squire because he wasn't clear on what kind of guitar it was as they both have the same headstock shape. Thats lawyer-speak.

Jacksons have the same headstock as Charvels do. Where's the problem with brand distinction there?

I realize that these are extreme examples, but the point remains.

[Venomboy]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

Right on Markus.

Stratheads weren't available so people went to GMW.

BCR is mostly crap now, so people are going to MCS.

It's not the burden of the consumer to worry about a product's brand image, marketing, etc. I

[m4dm4x]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

One thing John I’m missing here is your saying that we on this board are the minority and again from your marketing #'s it's seems like there is no majority. So I say that this niche guitar is probably going to struggle for Fender (according to you and your goal).
Here's the thing when I spoke recently to Wayne Charvel he was up to his neck in work. Last year when I spoke to Lee he was up to his neck in work. My point being this is a lucrative business for a small shop and you could probably earn a small fortune (especially with the strathead). But for Fender there's not enough business right now to make corporate bucks. Don’t forget both these builders aren’t looking at a budget and global sales.

[mulder1966]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

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Based on the input and comments here, IF we do add the Fender headstock as an option, I will expect to see orders from each of you who have claimed you'd buy it immediately. Just like Santa, I'll be keeping a list!!


[/ QUOTE ] Put me on that list, at a reasonable price... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Jack Napalm]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the thing when I spoke recently to Wayne Charvel he was up to his neck in work. Last year when I spoke to Lee he was up to his neck in work. My point being this is a lucrative business for a small shop and you could probably earn a small fortune (especially with the strathead). But for Fender there's not enough business right now to make corporate bucks. Don’t forget both these builders aren’t looking at a budget and global sales.

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From everything I have heard and seen I think Jackson/Charvel are up to the neck in work. Look how long it takes too get a custom shop guitar. It's not that it takes 12+ months to build a guitar it's that you have to wait in the queue for months before they even start working on it.

[~K~]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

Reasonable price anything below what any given person has in their pocket and is willing to spend at anyu given time..

[mulder1966]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

Charvel should be able to make a 1 hum, Floyd, solid color strat for the same price as a new pointy + a reasonable upcharge for the strathead. (and not a $300 upcharge either) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]IMO

[mulder1966]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

If you take into account the strathead is 1 piece without a scarf joint, it should be easier for them to make, and more cost effective.

[Tune_Up]

Re: Musikraft San Dimas replica

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You guys are assuming that you are the majority. While I appreciate the Charvel and Jackson fans on here, you are a small part of the buying public.

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Yes, we are a small part of the buying public, but I'd say we're are a majority of the CHARVEL buying public at this point.

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I asked the questions I asked to see what kind of responses I would get. For the most part, the answers have been pretty self-centered "I want something and I can't have it NOW, so to get back at Fender, I'm going to buy it from someone else".

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Of course it's self centered, I believe it's my hard earned money I will be spending. I've wanted a custom strathead Charvel for the last 15 to 20 years and they haven't been available. So what am I supposed to do? Wait another 5, 10, 15 years, I think not. There lies the reason people turn to building Charvel replicas. This has absolutely nothing to do with getting back at Fender. Replicas were being built before FMIC bought Charvel.

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I have to look at Charvel as a GLOBAL brand that (whether you see it or not) is unknown among 12-25 year olds. Ask a 12 year old who EVH is....I bet more that 50% have no idea. Ask them about Charvel guitars....I bet 80+% have never heard of them. Also, many players 25-50+ who knew Charvel in the past think they are long gone or only make import crap.

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I understand this and don't disagree with you here. However, I don't see why you can't go after the 12-25 demographic and please the hardcore Charvel fans who have been supporting the company way before FMIC entered the picture.

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The Charvel brand is being re-born after many years of little to no marketing and the Charvette debacle. It has to gain an identity of it's own before we begin to consider making it a Fender headstock guitar with cool Charvel features.

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I agree with charvette being a debacle. I do think Charvel does have an identity. Maybe not with the 12-25 year old group but I don't see that putting a different headstock on them would change the identity to the point were people are confused as to what the brand is/represents. What seperates Fenders and Squires is not the headstock. When I hear/see the Squire name I think cheaper guitar, cheaper materials/components, lower quality guitar.

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If you want to re-logo or put a rip-off Charvel logo on a "replica", I can't stop you. Those that put a Charvel logo on a piece of crap or even a decent guitar, only serve to damage the brand in the long run. Anyone who has experience in marketing a brand, product brand management, or has worked in a business in which brand names are affected will understand this and agree with me.

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I understand about the logo issue and FMIC has the rights to it. However, Fender could solve the majority of the logo problems but they don't offer the correct alternative yet. It's just difficult to hear them complain about it when they can but won't offer a solution. If Joe Schmo wants to put a logo on his replica that he plays in his bedroom, I don't believe that is doing anything to diminish the Charvel brand. I know people who have used Fender logos on non fender guitars and that hasn't changed my view of Fender brand. Fender may have made decisions themselves that might have changed my view of the Fender brand but someones use of a logo would mean squat to me. I do understand Fender wanting to protect their property though.

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Please understand that I'm not slamming anyone on here. You all have been open and honest with your replies to my questions, so I am giving you the same benefit. I want Charvel to become a well known, kick ass guitar brand that has longevity. Adding the Fender headstock to the list of options ASAP just to make some people on the JCF happy will not help me reach my goal.

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While I understand your goal, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the people on the JCF. We very well could help you to achieve your goal.

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Based on the input and comments here, IF we do add the Fender headstock as an option, I will expect to see orders from each of you who have claimed you'd buy it immediately. Just like Santa, I'll be keeping a list!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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I'd put my order in now if I could. As long as strathead, solid color, floyd equiped guitar was under $2000 and flame and quilt guitars were upcharged from that point. Any more than that for those options then probably not.

Anyway, I don't believe anyone is take your comments as slamming them. If anything, I'm sure everyone is greatful to have this ability to discuss, debate and communicate with you and it sounds like everyone is being honest with their thoughts and opinions. This is a great thread!