Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[Hambucker]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Other than the credibility of laminating a fretboard...

Where is this thread going?
What is your goal vic?

I just want to know. I think the same way as Paddok do and yes you could convince me if you would try to prove something else than starting a consecration on GMW and ranting off.

[sully]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

i don't think he's simply ranting off, unfounded. he's got right to be pissed off. granted, nothing will be done by GMW about it, but vic has right to post about his experience.

[Rupe]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

As someone who has workedin/managed a music store and done repairs and set ups for many years (as well as worked beside a true luthier simply to learn more) I have never seen a laminate on top of a fretboard.
So, all this other discussion about personalities, etc. is meaningless. Vic received a neck that was clearly not repaired correctly by anyones standards that i know of. He got shafted in this regard. Everything else in this situation doesn't matter...long diatribes trying to analyze this situation are a waste of everyones time. Stay out of the weeds and focus on the simple fact that a fretboard veneer is not a proper fix.
Tim...if something isn't right to begin with, warrenty is not the issue.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

[ QUOTE ]
Other than the credibility of laminating a fretboard...

Where is this thread going?
What is your goal vic?

I just want to know. I think the same way as Paddok do and yes you could convince me if you would try to prove something else than starting a consecration on GMW and ranting off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally, I see it as a warning of what his 'warranty repair' consisted of. I would be pissed if someone 'fixed' a guitar of mine like that. Vic gave his side, we've seen Lee's side, we've even seen Moser's side.

What's more interesting to me out of this is the 'fingerboard veneer' issue. It may be my cynical nature, but it almost seems like Vic was enough of a pain in Lee's ass that he did this as quickly/easily as possible to get rid of him - instead of doing it 'right'.

I wouldn't avoid all GMWs, but it sure makes me wonder about any of them with bound necks! Has anyone asked Jackson if the veneer would be an acceptable warranty repair?

Oh, and I've bought guitars from different climates that had the wood shrink up on the fingerboard edges and needed to be filed a bit. I could only imagine what a 'sandwich' of fingerboard materials would do when subjected to climate change.

Pete

[Twisteramps]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

[ QUOTE ]
Other than the credibility of laminating a fretboard...

Where is this thread going?
What is your goal vic?

I just want to know. I think the same way as Paddok do and yes you could convince me if you would try to prove something else than starting a consecration on GMW and ranting off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully you never have an issue like this. If you do, I'll be first in line to tell you to not start a consecration on the offender or 'ranting off'. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Badseed]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

9 pages of rants though Sully? Thats a bit much if you ask me.

I could rant about my Ex-wife for 9 pages, but it would get redundant and not prove my point that much more then one page could. He has made his point and now is just spinning his wheels.

My .000002 cents

[Hambucker]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

[ QUOTE ]

Hopefully you never have an issue like this. If you do, I'll be first in line to tell you to not start a consecration on the offender or 'ranting off'. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I apreciate your answers and all the ones I got before.

[sully]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

i hear ya davey, but in the 9 pages, vic isn't restating anything or blathering on nonsensically; he's been responding to the replies he's received.

i do think that we've pretty much covered everything, but i don't think that we need to lock it up. as far as if this were a charvel, i personally don't think that the admins would treat this thread much differently; if nothing else, he may have had a better shot at warranty service.

when it comes down to it, vic, i hope that when the new board is put on that the guitar is everything you had hoped it to be and not something that you can't enjoy b/c of the history.

sully

[AK47]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

It this was my business the bad PR cant be good. Regardless of who was right or wrong I would eat the cost myself and send him a whole new guitar, and make sure it was publically disclosed.

I run my own business and have eaten the cost because of certain unreasonable customers even though it was not my fault.

By the way I think Vic has a legit gripe, Even Neil Moser said fretboard veneers are not standard practice.

[sully]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

neal said that where? i must have missed that in this massive thread!

[AK47]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

[ QUOTE ]
A few points I'd like to make:

I corresponded with Neal Moser earlier and he'd like to state for the record:

"I would ..... AFAIK, that's not SOP for repairing/replacing a fretboard and if nothing else, Vic should have been told first that that was the manner in which the repair would be performed, and given the option to proceed with it or leave it as it was....



[/ QUOTE ] <u>AFAIK, that's not SOP for repairing/replacing a fretboard and if nothing else, Vic should have been told first that that was the manner in which the repair would be performed,</u>

[AK47]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Sorry I was trying to underline that in the quote, The underline command had me baffled sorry.

[MBreinin]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Damn!!

This is why I love buying old import Charvels for $200 on E-Bay, if they suck...someone else will like them, or, I can heat my house with them.

This just sucks, period.

Mike

[Endrik]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Veneering crap

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubbthreads/show...;gonew=1#UNREAD

[paddok]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

My comments in bold.

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, a lot to go over here Alex.

1) I like to logo stuff to suit what I like. I have a Charvel tattoo on my arm and both J/C logos as stickers on my car. I ordered this guitar to keep forever, so I went with what I thought was a quality product, not quality and better resale value, ie Jackson. When I couldn't get the specs I wanted it went from a Charvel style to Jackson style, and I would have done the same to that headstock. Call it what you want, it's just a guitar.


The point is though, that you did stick a Jackson logo on it. IF it were just a concern about liking the looks of a logo'd thing, THEN you could have just had a GMW logo installed.
2) What was wrong in the first place? That fretboard travesty of a veneer was there from day one when I got it. The guitar can be worked on to play ok, but not long later it will go bad again, and then more fret work. These frets have not been played and are hardly jumbo at all anymore.

3) By the time I agreed to let Lee ship it back I knew it was useless talking to Lee about it and decided to fix it properly myself. Had I not found the veneer to explain the problems, but a normal fretboard with frets in it, I just would have done so and presented the newly boarded guitar. The veneer changed everything.

But should it? What is the difference from having a veneer to having a warped neck. I problem is a problem in my mind. I'd be just as pissed with a warped neck as I would the veneer. In fact, I'd be happy to find the veneer in some sense because now I would know that I've found the heart of the problem and will eventually have a playable guitar.

4) I'm sorry I come off as whiney to you. I am trying to get some points across. On my website I'll show you some emails. As a guitar enthusiast, I know what's what and I know what I want. Being nitpicky is allowed when you're the customer, I know and remember every detail of this guitar order, it's the only one I had going, whereas the shop has a bunch and that's how mistakes like the dot inlays get made. How they are fixed makes a world of difference. If you've ever read some of my other posts, you'll get an idea what I'm like. This issue with GMW is what gets my goat.
I have, and honestly, this isn't meant as a shot against you. I agree you have a right to be happy with your product as a consumer, but it still seems as though you could have done a few things differently to avoid some of this shit. Just because you paid $1600 for the guitar doesn't give you the right to be a dick, just in the same way that because Lee built the guitar for you doesn't give him any justification for being a dick.

5) Lee has been aware of all threads, and has always been welcome to have his say. Pls stop saying I'm full of BS, that is just uncalled for, if I was full of BS I would not be doing this, I have strong legs to stand on in every part of this issue. My memory is clear and I have a ton of emails.
I'm not saying you are full of BS. I'll I'm saying is that you could be and nobody here would be the wiser. It is like me sitting back and saying I've got a thousand bucks in my pocket. It sounds plausible, but you all have no way of confirming the truth.

And though Lee is aware of these threads, the point is he does not have an account to post on, and thus has no direct voice on this board. I'm pretty sure if I was in his shoes I wouldn't bother either. Imagine if I ordered a guitar from Sully, and when I got it, I thought I had a bunch of problems with it. So I went to a forum that half the JCF posted on, but Sully didn't, and started talking shit and arguing what a poor job he did.

6) Figured woods and stability, what's the go? Russ[, my luthier who is fixing the GMW neck, made me a guitar with the sickest flame & birdseye I have ever seen. If Birdseye is a disease, this neck has died a thousand times. It's unfinished and oiled, plays like a mutha and has been as stable as a rock, I just pick it up and play it all year round, so I go for figure every time if possible. What does this have to do with my guitar anyway, I'm not saying the birdseye is a problem, it's the veneer. Remember that bit Alex, it will always come back to the veneer, that's where the instability lies.

I'm sure that is the case, but I'm just saying, when I ordered my first GMW, Lee was very up front that figured maple has a tendency to warp and as thus was not covered by the warranty. Warmoth does that same stuff. If your guitar neck isn't finished then it isn't under warranty. See the Warmoth site on neck finishing for their rather to the point explanation of the neck warranty.

7) Here we come back to the veneer again. A few days later and all the work of milling and dressing is undone. You're not getting the picture on how this guitar keeps going bad. It's not Australia, it's not shipping, it's not the fret dress, it's the veneer.
Got it.

8) I'll be damned if a guitar I order new in this century is going to have a shim. To me that's for guitars you are fixing up that you want to work with different hardware. None of my other guitars have one, my Model 88 has the properly cut neck pocket slant, as this should have done. While you mention the shim, lets not forget it was a bad one too, just a slice of plastic at the rear, with a large air gap in there.

I'm not really sure if that makes it a bad shim. Mine has a little air gap too. I've found some weird shit used as shims, from paper clippings to GMW cards. Still doesn't seem like an issue to me, or to most people I know.

I mentioned the mortgage and child in response to another thread saying I should get something like a GMP. I replied that my life has changed, I'm no longer spending thousands of dollars on guitars, I have other priorities, what is your problem with that. You seem to just read things and take them out of context.

If I did, it wasn't intentional. It was 3 AM while I was typing that post. It just seemed to me that you were drawing in irrelevant issues in life in order to get more sympathy for your cause.

I deserved a new neck the minute he put that veneer on without telling me, though that's called a new fingerboard at GMW. I deserved one then, I deserve one now, but I'll never get it. I don’t' think I asked for a new neck this time round, I'll have to check my posts. Others have said I should get a new neck, and even a refund. No chance of that.

Well I doubt you would get a new neck in the first place simply because I'm pretty sure your initial complaint came in after Lee had received the C&D letter from fender. Meaning no more new necks like those.


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