Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Interesting question Fong, probably depends on where the contract of sale was entered into in a legal sense.

[Razor]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

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You f*%#ed up, put the thing through the band saw and get a new one going. Just the cost of doing business.

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+ infinity...

[Flatpicker]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Does it really matter if it is a legal issue?
If you make something and you stand by it's quality, you should make every reasonable attempt to rectify a known issue.
The guitar world is relatively tiny and I can't imagine Lee gained customers with this bonehead play.

[Chrisb]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

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And if you would have received one of a number of Warrior guitars that Chris and I saw at NAMM you'd be just as pissed. I was very surprised to see how crappy some of their work was.

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Woah thats somewhat suprising. I don't recall anyone mentioning anything about the Warriors sucking at NAMM. Granted its been well over 3 years since I've even laid a finger on one but the work was incredible back then, and of course so was the price.

[btx109]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Some thoughts re the BBB (Better Business Bureau); also, the Department of Consumer Affairs...

The way these agencies work is, you file a claim against a business regarding a dispute you cannot work out on your own, as is the case here. The agencies take a report and contact the business to get their side of the story. They attempt to mediate a mutually-acceptable outcome for your situation and they also maintain reliability reports based on customer complaints and satisfaction ratings. If the business is a member of the BBB, they have some latitude re putting pressure on the business to do right by the customer. Other than that, that's pretty much it. They are not the law, they have no legal authority to force a business to comply with a customer's wishes.

But they do serve a purpose as far as reporting bad business practices and unethical policies, for future customers. I may be in the minority, but I frequently check out the reports from the BBB when deciding whether or not to deal with a new business.

I think your best options at this point would be a) if you paid for the guitar with a credit card, to call the issuing bank and see if they will initiate a chargeback or if they offer insurance for purchases...and b), contact an attorney to see if you have a case. For four grand, and for your own peace of mind, I'd do it.

[RacerX]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

I think this thread is now the largest in the Guitar By Other forum....

[~K~]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

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I think this thread is now the largest in the Guitar By Other forum....

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2nd largest

[RacerX]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Give it time....

[lerxstcat]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

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I agree there, and am not debating it. I'm just on the side of those arguing that it should have been done right the first time (the "first time" not being the initial build, but addressing the return and second round of work, which consisted of gluing a veneer w/o the knowledge of the buyer).

It taking a 3rd party's work to discover the turd under the shine isn't the buyer's fault... Especially since it took a lot of badgering and time from the buyer to get Lee to own up to the veneer job, and especially since what was discovered can be considered fraudulent.

This may even have lawsuit potential. The dude didn't ask for or pay for wall paper, but in the end, he did so (unknowingly).

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He can sue in small claims court, where he maqy or may not prevail. He would have to show up from Australia though, and stay long enough not only for the case but to collect the judgement, if he won. You don't get paid automatically, you typically hire a marshall to do a till tap; the marshall intercepts all incoming funds until the judgement is paid. This takes time, for which you pay the marshall.

If Vic lived in L.A. it would be easy; comingv from Oz the costs might be very high, and a judge could say legally that when Vic had the Aussie luthier work on the guitar that the warranty was void, regardless of the work that was found. The law is funny that way. A judge might conclude that Lee did him a favor by working on it at all. You just never know. Lee has witnesses who'll testify it played fine when they saw it, and a judge may not understand or care about the technical issues. He would very likely jail you for contempt if you blow up in his courtroom, again regardless of the facts of the case.

So with warnings issued, Vic, it may be best to have your local guy make the guitar what you want, drop it and go on.
Lee screwed you, but you bent over and dropped trou by having the local guy void your warranty and by waiting several months to make your initial complaint. You were wronged, but learn the lesson of what you did wrong too. Time to move on, my friend.

FWIW, I'd not consider a new GMW after hearing your story, and I'm sure many who haven't posted as well as those who have feel the same way. The warning is appreciated.

[toejam]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Fuck Lee! Oh, I said that a couple times already, didn't I? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

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Fuck Lee! Oh, I said that a couple times already, didn't I? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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Clarifications are always appreciated! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Chameleonfong]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Hey Toejam,

Is this you? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]



Fong

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

More importantly, can we change this to the "I hate Lee" forum? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

No, but it's close. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Jack Napalm]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

Since the guitar has been worked on and taken apart basically would small claims court do any good? I bet any recourse he may have had went out the window when he had another tech work on the guitar.