Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[toejam]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

I hope to live off that stuff when I'm old.

[jcmktgguy]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

1. We Don't veneer fingerboard as a repair. We would mill off the fingerboard and replace it with a new one.

2. I talked to Tim Wilson about toothpicks and we shouldn't see them anymore!

[neilli]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

1. As we suspected
2. Good [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[StukaJU87]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

[ QUOTE ]
1. We Don't veneer fingerboard as a repair. We would mill off the fingerboard and replace it with a new one.

2. I talked to Tim Wilson about toothpicks and we shouldn't see them anymore!

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I never believed Jackson would use a veneer.

2. Look at the bright side. You could put those cases of toothpicks in the break room where they belong. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] The employees would probably appreciate it after a nice lunch. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Genebaby]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have never even heard of a fretboard veneer. Has anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

All Fender rose wood boards from mid/late '62 until the reissues came out are lam boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes!!! After being shocked and disgusted with my board Russ brought up those old Fender necks. We've discussed them before years ago, how Fender put the rosewood on to defend against the maple boards becoming discoloured from being handled in the shop. Now of course we don't care, and the same can be achieved with an application of lacquer.

The big difference is the Fender boards were done WELL. It was just like a one piece neck again as it was done properly. Mine reminds of that movie Poltergeist, they built my new "fingerboard" on the old fingerboards grave, with frets popping up like tombstones. Seriously, these thoughts have gone through my head about this situation.

You simply can't compare the two, the execution was not there in the GMW one, and it wasn't me who made a mistake, but I've been paying for it. I did not order a lam(e) fingerboard on top of the ruins of the last one.

[thebisch]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the lam repair job. I think it is/was a cheesy way to do a repair, especially with the old fret slots in tact. I was just stating the Fender thing for the many on this thread that have never seen/heard of a lam board. GMWs to me are glorified Warmoth guitars.

[hippietim]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
GMWs to me are glorified Warmoth guitars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda like the original San Dimas Charvels, eh?

[hippietim]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

So let me get this straight, enough heat was applied to the neck with the expectation that the fingerboard would come off - right? It was enough heat to loosen the binding and the board - right? So it stands to reason that it was enough heat to mess with how the veneer is applied - right. I'm sure if you hit one of those old Fender necks with that much heat you would see the same results as what you got with your neck. I know that's how we used to remove scuffed up veneer from antique furniture. Based on the description of the procedure in the first post of this thread, there is no way in hell you can conclude the veneer was improperly installed.

I still don't think veneer is cool but I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't properly installed when stuff was done to it specifically to get it to come apart.

[83SanDimas]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

Wow, that was some read. I would think of things I would want to add, but as I got close to the bottom and learned the Fuck Lee is Bruce Lees son I lost my valid points.

So many interesting points worth commenting on. None of them would add insight to Vics issue though. Thanks Sully for staying with it....

[PallarAndersVisa]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight, enough heat was applied to the neck with the expectation that the fingerboard would come off - right? It was enough heat to loosen the binding and the board - right? So it stands to reason that it was enough heat to mess with how the veneer is applied - right. I'm sure if you hit one of those old Fender necks with that much heat you would see the same results as what you got with your neck. I know that's how we used to remove scuffed up veneer from antique furniture. Based on the description of the procedure in the first post of this thread, there is no way in hell you can conclude the veneer was improperly installed.

I still don't think veneer is cool but I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't properly installed when stuff was done to it specifically to get it to come apart.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. plus, why did the dude wait 8 months to complain?

[txcharvel]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

Unless your guitar's neck is one piece maple with a skunk stripe for the truss rod, your guitar has a veneer for the fretboard. Every guitar I own has a veneer on the fretboard. Rosewood, ebony, even my maple boarded guitars are veneer. The difference is that it's a thick slab with plenty of solid wood for the frets to be seated in.

Go back to the first page and look at Genebaby's neck, the fret tangs pretty much go all the way thru the veneer. Basically cutting the wood in pieces all up and down the entire neck. If this is the case, the fretboard would only be as strong as each little piece of wood. Each fret would be held in place by a small piece of wood on each side of it that was glued into place.

The idea is not faulty, the way it was done is faulty. If you're going to mill off the fretboard, why not go all the way down and start with a fresh "slab" of maple.

Let me also say that I'm not on one side or the other here. I've had very good dealings with Lee, but I've also seen his other, arrogant, I don't have time for your crap side.

Get the neck done to your liking and play it. That guitar looks incredible. I remember when you got it and first posted pics. I thought it was one of the most incredible guitars I'd ever seen. Rock on bro, put this behind you and enjoy it best you can when you get it back [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Genebaby]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight, enough heat was applied to the neck with the expectation that the fingerboard would come off - right? It was enough heat to loosen the binding and the board - right? So it stands to reason that it was enough heat to mess with how the veneer is applied - right. I'm sure if you hit one of those old Fender necks with that much heat you would see the same results as what you got with your neck. I know that's how we used to remove scuffed up veneer from antique furniture. Based on the description of the procedure in the first post of this thread, there is no way in hell you can conclude the veneer was improperly installed.

I still don't think veneer is cool but I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't properly installed when stuff was done to it specifically to get it to come apart.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fretboard was heated, but nobody did anything else to the veneer. It wasn't revealed until an errant piece of binding was removed to get it out of the way.

Heat alone won't take a fretboard off, the glue is still there. It would burn before it came sliding off on it's own due to heat. It was carefully done so as not to damage the rest of the neck.

Anyway, Lee defended the gaps in the email I got back from him, and again in your email you posted, I think he had seen them before.

[Genebaby]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]

i agree. plus, why did the dude wait 8 months to complain?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that has been done to death, you have some reading to do. A lot of it, get a coffee and start absorbing.

[charvelguy]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight, enough heat was applied to the neck with the expectation that the fingerboard would come off - right? It was enough heat to loosen the binding and the board - right? So it stands to reason that it was enough heat to mess with how the veneer is applied - right. I'm sure if you hit one of those old Fender necks with that much heat you would see the same results as what you got with your neck. I know that's how we used to remove scuffed up veneer from antique furniture. Based on the description of the procedure in the first post of this thread, there is no way in hell you can conclude the veneer was improperly installed.

I still don't think veneer is cool but I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't properly installed when stuff was done to it specifically to get it to come apart.

[/ QUOTE ]

good points but I do not recall seeing he said he applied heat to remove the binding.
Actually, I believe it wasn't until it was taken a luthier for a setup to correct some minor issues that all this started to come unravelling. I recall when the guitar was first posted when received, if I recall, he seemed ok with it save for some other hassles and time.

From what I've seen from fretboards being removed..it requires a straightedge or knife to still lift if up.
I still think Lee's job is not one I'd want on my guitar. He should have used a thicker slab finger board and as others have said, planed it down or just replace the neck.
Makes me wonder how much of a veneer is the quilt top on mine. I have often thought it is likely pretty thin.
Still looks killer tho.

[lerxstcat]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *?%$@

[ QUOTE ]
Gene, you said that it's too far away to pursue legal avenues, but if I remember correctly, when you sue a merchant over quality control, they have to come to where you live. Because we're talking about two different countries, I don't know what the whole process is, but if this happened solely in the U.S., you could go to the Federal Trade Commission. There's things like warranty of merchantability, ethical practices, etc., that you could look into. This definitely falls under international law. If nothing else, go to a local court and talk to someone about what your options are.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Small claims cases have to be fought in the jurisdiction where the offense occurred, Southern California in this case. Also, a judge COULD rule that the warranty was void when the Aussie luthier touched it. No way to prove that he's not the one who fucked it up. Lee has 3 JCFers who swear the guitar played well before he shipped it out. Even if he won he'd have to hire a marshall to enforce the judgement and collect. Believe it or not, the judge orders you to pay but doesn't make you pay. It would cost a small fortune to make the trip, stay in L.A. and hire the marshall to collect, if he won. Chances are the judge would not let him add the expenses to the judgement.

It sucks, but distance makes justice unlikely. Better to make the guitar what you want with the tech there in Oz and chalk up a bitter lesson well-learned.