Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[sully]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
So let me get this straight, enough heat was applied to the neck with the expectation that the fingerboard would come off - right? It was enough heat to loosen the binding and the board - right? So it stands to reason that it was enough heat to mess with how the veneer is applied - right. I'm sure if you hit one of those old Fender necks with that much heat you would see the same results as what you got with your neck. I know that's how we used to remove scuffed up veneer from antique furniture. Based on the description of the procedure in the first post of this thread, there is no way in hell you can conclude the veneer was improperly installed.

I still don't think veneer is cool but I don't see how anyone can say it wasn't properly installed when stuff was done to it specifically to get it to come apart.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm missing something, tim. are you referring to the heat application regarding the veneer being put on? i don't think that's what was stated as what was done. the board was milled down a bit, then the laminate was applied. my apologies if i misunderstood.

sully

[sully]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

nevermind! more reading answered my uncertainty.

sully

[shelby22]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

Vic has every right to be outraged by this. One thing doesn't make sense to me though. Everyone keep saying the fingerboard was planed down and then veneered. You would have to use a hand plane to do this and still maintain the radius. So why would you remove the frets, hand sand/plane the fingerboard, glue and vacuum press the veneer, and then refret? That would take much more time than just replacing the fretboard. I just have to wonder what the thinking was......I can't believe it was done out of spite.

[sully]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

my guess is that it was planed, veneered, re-radiused, then fretted. again, just guessing.

[mulder1966]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fuck Lee!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Bruce Lee's son?


[/ QUOTE ]

Now that was funny [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mulder1966]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

A few things...

1) I have had 5 guitars built from Lee, and in every case, he was great to work with. (this is my opinion of course)

2) How can people in this thread who have never even played a GMW say they would never buy one? Maybe they should be open minded enough to look at Vic's situation as a secluded incident.

3) Should Lee have replaced the neck? I bet at this point even he would shout yes! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

4) If you have something against Lee, and it is relevant to us buying his product, maybe you would let everyone know what it is, instead of just burning on him. If it is an attack on him as a person, I don't see the need for it here.

5) Vic, I wish that this situation could be settled to the point that you would feel it needs. Perhaps asking for a new neck now would get you somewhere... I don't know.

6) All of the guitars I have from Lee are straight forward SD clones, which makes it easy to please, IMO. Vic's guitar is obviously harder to pull off.

Please don't send me any "Hey Fu@ker" PMs! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Chameleonfong]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
A few things...

1) I have had 5 guitars built from Lee, and in every case, he was great to work with. (this is my opinion of course)

2) How can people in this thread who have never even played a GMW say they would never buy one? Maybe they should be open minded enough to look at Vic's situation as a secluded incident.


[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you know that there are plenty of people here who has ESP (metaphysical, or paranormal sensing of sight, sound, taste, smell, and touch)? They can smell quality and hear tone by either reading or seeing pictures. bwhahahahaha


Fong

[charvelguy]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
Vic has every right to be outraged by this. One thing doesn't make sense to me though. Everyone keep saying the fingerboard was planed down and then veneered. You would have to use a hand plane to do this and still maintain the radius. So why would you remove the frets, hand sand/plane the fingerboard, glue and vacuum press the veneer, and then refret? That would take much more time than just replacing the fretboard. I just have to wonder what the thinking was......I can't believe it was done out of spite.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, as I've posted this was a fairly intensive process but I think it should have been even more thorough.
I didn't work on the guitar but given the look of the original fret slots in the neck, he didn't plane much if at all. I'm just speculating as to the process.. maybe a sanding with a radius block would take off the glue and amount of wood to give a new surface for the veneer. I am also unfamiliar with the specifics of fretwork done by the local luthier who first noticed the problems.

[lerxstcat]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A few things...

1) I have had 5 guitars built from Lee, and in every case, he was great to work with. (this is my opinion of course)

2) How can people in this thread who have never even played a GMW say they would never buy one? Maybe they should be open minded enough to look at Vic's situation as a secluded incident.


[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you know that there are plenty of people here who has ESP (metaphysical, or paranormal sensing of sight, sound, taste, smell, and touch)? They can smell quality and hear tone by either reading or seeing pictures. bwhahahahaha


Fong

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the issues is, knowing ANY maker can put out a lemon, that why deal with someone who might blow you off if he's on the rag that day? Or if he thinks you didn't kowtow to him properly. Sometimes people don't hit it off personally, but if a guy is prone to stiff me on my warranty because of it, I wouldn't want to go down that road. I can see why he'd void the warranty for Vic having someone else work on it, but since he DID agree to do warranty work, he should've made it right, not done it half-assed. So if I ever wanted a GMW, I'd buy used and depend on a qualified local luthier if issues arose - a luthier who I could discuss issues with face-to-face. What's wrong with that?

[Genebaby]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
Vic has every right to be outraged by this. One thing doesn't make sense to me though. Everyone keep saying the fingerboard was planed down and then veneered. You would have to use a hand plane to do this and still maintain the radius. So why would you remove the frets, hand sand/plane the fingerboard, glue and vacuum press the veneer, and then refret? That would take much more time than just replacing the fretboard. I just have to wonder what the thinking was......I can't believe it was done out of spite.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I surely am outraged! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Considering the issues with the frets I don't think a whole lot of time was used to get certain things right, just to get it looking good on top. Why at that stage of the build only Lee knows. He showed no sign of being pissed that he'd made the error which led to this.

[Genebaby]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
A few things...

6) All of the guitars I have from Lee are straight forward SD clones, which makes it easy to please, IMO. Vic's guitar is obviously harder to pull off.

Please don't send me any "Hey Fu@ker" PMs! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to think myself why was that this guitar doesn't work, and countless others do. Finding what happened to the fretboard changed all that, this guitar could have played just as good from day one as any other GMW. A decision was made that changed that. Of course GMW can build this guitar, but nobody could make the frets stay in place thanks to their decision. This is what's killing me today, that and Lee's continued stonewalling that he owes me nothing.

[Genebaby]

Re: Lee Garver is an unethical piece of *&#%$@

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Vic has every right to be outraged by this. One thing doesn't make sense to me though. Everyone keep saying the fingerboard was planed down and then veneered. You would have to use a hand plane to do this and still maintain the radius. So why would you remove the frets, hand sand/plane the fingerboard, glue and vacuum press the veneer, and then refret? That would take much more time than just replacing the fretboard. I just have to wonder what the thinking was......I can't believe it was done out of spite.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, as I've posted this was a fairly intensive process but I think it should have been even more thorough.
I didn't work on the guitar but given the look of the original fret slots in the neck, he didn't plane much if at all. I'm just speculating as to the process.. maybe a sanding with a radius block would take off the glue and amount of wood to give a new surface for the veneer. I am also unfamiliar with the specifics of fretwork done by the local luthier who first noticed the problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fairly sure but the local guys (these were 4 hours from me, but still more local than GMW) pulled the frets, removed the bad glue job and reseated the frets the best they know how. It didn't last long, but nobody knew what lay underneath at this time. Lee? worked on them some more, and yeah, if you show someone the guitar soon enough, it will play ok, which is all that matters to Lee on this case, it played fine when it left there.

[Genebaby]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A few things...

1) I have had 5 guitars built from Lee, and in every case, he was great to work with. (this is my opinion of course)

2) How can people in this thread who have never even played a GMW say they would never buy one? Maybe they should be open minded enough to look at Vic's situation as a secluded incident.


[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't you know that there are plenty of people here who has ESP (metaphysical, or paranormal sensing of sight, sound, taste, smell, and touch)? They can smell quality and hear tone by either reading or seeing pictures. bwhahahahaha


Fong

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the issues is, knowing ANY maker can put out a lemon, that why deal with someone who might blow you off if he's on the rag that day? Or if he thinks you didn't kowtow to him properly. Sometimes people don't hit it off personally, but if a guy is prone to stiff me on my warranty because of it, I wouldn't want to go down that road. I can see why he'd void the warranty for Vic having someone else work on it, but since he DID agree to do warranty work, he should've made it right, not done it half-assed. So if I ever wanted a GMW, I'd buy used and depend on a qualified local luthier if issues arose - a luthier who I could discuss issues with face-to-face. What's wrong with that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, lemons or problems can get out of the shop, how they are dealt with afterwards is part of the big issue here. This should never have been done to my guitar, and it should have been rectified with a new neck when it became clear I was having problems with it. Lee could have figured, well, we tried the easy fix on this guy's new guitar, let's make it right this time. No, I was ignored and more superfluous fretwork was performed, enough to satisfy a third party before it left again. That is trickery, but I didn't know the full story myself then, so what do you do?

Nobody else who has anything to do with guitars thinks it's a great job, and would be embarrassed to have it come out of their shop.

[Genebaby]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
A few things...

3) Should Lee have replaced the neck? I bet at this point even he would shout yes! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Lee is impervious to outside forces like these. He says he does not care how much I rant on places like this. Well, we'll see about that. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You could always email him to see if he's changed your mind, I'm not allowed to communicate with him anymore.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: beating the dead horse thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A few things...

3) Should Lee have replaced the neck? I bet at this point even he would shout yes! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

Lee is impervious to outside forces like these. He says he does not care how much I rant on places like this. Well, we'll see about that. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You could always email him to see if he's changed your mind, I'm not allowed to communicate with him anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

If continuous public out crying is your only recourse and Lee doesn't care so be it but when is enough enough?