PLayed a real LES PAUL for the first time

[1928watercooled]

but there's just something about a Les Paul

There definitely is. I bought a Custom about 2 months ago and have been really impressed. Definitely not a shred guitar, but it sounds great.

[Mr.Lizardman]

Mine are quite the shredworthy specimens....

[charvelguy]

personal opinion of course.. Les Paul was initially a more Jazz oriented hardtail. I can imagine how ole Les felt when Gibson released the SG with his name on the headstock as the 'new Paul'..and neglected to mention it.

Randy Rhoads and John Sykes can/could certainly shred up a Paul. They make great all purpose instrument.. I use mine for dropped tuning quite often and they can deliver for that.

That defnitely is a Chinese LP.
I played a 'worn' USA studio the other day.. ya know.. the one that typically sells now for about 600-700 bucks new...it was crap.

The days of buying stuff at stable pricing is long gone..it's all going thru the roof. Gas, food, guitars..just an absurdly profit motivated spiral.

[1928watercooled]

Mine are quite the shredworthy specimens....

Okay, I can't shred on one.

It still sounds great.

[Jeff Albertson]

There's something a bout a Les Paul alright. I could probably sum it up.
1. Marketing plan
2. Artist association
3. It's a good shape and has a colorful and thick tone
4. It doesn't have to be a Gibson.......no.

My opinion...if you think you Gibson (vs most copy LP's) has a special quality, "it's in your head". You know like placebo effect. Granted there are some very well made one and a ton of fuked up ones. There is absolutley NO way Gibson can justify the horse-shit prices they charge....No way.

Get your hands on an early 80's Tokai LS-200...it is the Holy Grail of Les Pauls....maybe "Reborn" if you will. Check the headstock, it says it all. I had one in the late 90's and let it go when I got to busy to play regularly. 2nd biggest mistake of my life.

Gibson needs to start concentrate on making good, well made guitars. You spend $2300 on a LP Standard and $1300 of your $ goes toward marketing and artist relations and PR events and lawyers for lawsuits. Gibson gives away guitars (LP Studio's) at the Aspen Film Festival and the Oscars...hundreds of them for free! Unfortunatley this is probably the example JCMI wants to follow for Charvel.

What are you left with? A fukin BFG...which is made from rejected scrap wood and it's not even finished. 72 over-priced RI's and a couple of super inflated production models with unfinished frets and warped necks and unevenly cut bridges and bind pullin off and chopped up fret boards.

You want a guitar to play get a copy. Tokai, Edwards, ESP, Heritiage, whatever. If you want a guitar for the wall or resale value...get a Gibson (you could ride the PR wave!)

[Racerx2k]

Yeah, looks like one of the fakes I've recently seen around the web. check it out:

http://www.musoland.com.cn/more_pic.asp?ProdId=0668

This one is supposed to look like a LP Supreme, whereas the one in question, in this thread is made to look like a Custom. Notice the Gibson logo looks similar, and the stamping is also deeply marked. These go for around $300, from what I've seen/heard.

[Racerx2k]

Since this IS the Jackson forum, I doubt any of you know a damn thing about Les Pauls. I think that one is real!

That WAS intended to be a joke, right?

[charvelguy]

yes..he was jokin.

[charvelguy]

AMEN!..I was going to mention Heritage last night and I forgot as I was posting. I'll take a high end Navigator, Tokai, even an Edwards 85 over most Gibsons I've seen produced lately. Granted.. USA studios just made within the past 5 years can still be had for ok prices. IF I found a good one.. I would probably consider it. Most I've picked up have been 'ok'
The markup is insane. They were selling LP deluxe reissues like hotcakes for 1299-1399 out of MF about 5-7 years ago... those same reissues are now 1999.00 at MF limited. Freakin 2 grand for a once mainstream Paul now labeled a 'limited'.
For a new axe..(and used) Heritage will more than likely get my first consideration and money before Gibson ever will.

There's something a bout a Les Paul alright. I could probably sum it up.
1. Marketing plan
2. Artist association
3. It's a good shape and has a colorful and thick tone
4. It doesn't have to be a Gibson.......no.

My opinion...if you think you Gibson (vs most copy LP's) has a special quality, "it's in your head". You know like placebo effect. Granted there are some very well made one and a ton of fuked up ones. There is absolutley NO way Gibson can justify the horse-shit prices they charge....No way.

Get your hands on an early 80's Tokai LS-200...it is the Holy Grail of Les Pauls....maybe "Reborn" if you will. Check the headstock, it says it all. I had one in the late 90's and let it go when I got to busy to play regularly. 2nd biggest mistake of my life.

Gibson needs to start concentrate on making good, well made guitars. You spend $2300 on a LP Standard and $1300 of your $ goes toward marketing and artist relations and PR events and lawyers for lawsuits. Gibson gives away guitars (LP Studio's) at the Aspen Film Festival and the Oscars...hundreds of them for free! Unfortunatley this is probably the example JCMI wants to follow for Charvel.

What are you left with? A fukin BFG...which is made from rejected scrap wood and it's not even finished. 72 over-priced RI's and a couple of super inflated production models with unfinished frets and warped necks and unevenly cut bridges and bind pullin off and chopped up fret boards.

You want a guitar to play get a copy. Tokai, Edwards, ESP, Heritiage, whatever. If you want a guitar for the wall or resale value...get a Gibson (you could ride the PR wave!)

[dtt001]

Chime in here on the original guitar, the neck/heel looked funny. As for Gibson in general they seem to always have been over priced. What I have never cared for is a nice Les Paul with crummy parts. Never liked those Kluson plastic tuners. Not a pot shot here, business is always set up to make $$, I just wish Gibson would put some top shelf parts on without the really high markup. I would suggest, if this guy ever gets a real Gibson Les Paul try a tone pros bridge and stop tail on it. I have this on mine and at least to my ears it adds some life to the guitar.

[Jeff Albertson]

Chime in here on the original guitar, the neck/heel looked funny. As for Gibson in general they seem to always have been over priced. What I have never cared for is a nice Les Paul with crummy parts. Never liked those Kluson plastic tuners. Not a pot shot here, business is always set up to make $$, I just wish Gibson would put some top shelf parts on without the really high markup. I would suggest, if this guy ever gets a real Gibson Les Paul try a tone pros bridge and stop tail on it. I have this on mine and at least to my ears it adds some life to the guitar.

I can tell you what happened to your good parts. Zakk gotta get paid, baby and Gibson is writing checks!

[Mr.Lizardman]

Uh- Yeah, I don't own any of the newer ones....Only vintage ones. There's a reason for that- or several....Gibson hasn't gotten any of my money directly either! (Jackson has- but I bought those from dealers not directly from the company)

Zakk wanted my maple neck, but I GOT IT! He's got enough money to buy any one he wants and the earbending power at Gibson to have them build whatever he wants....Gee- Does THAT sound familiar here?? Seems I remember reading a thread on here about Jackson doing that sort of shit....
It's the same all over. And us 'little people' are left to pick up the scraps....and foot the bill. Damn- it's pretty depressing....and unfortunate that collectors are destroying the market for enthusiasts. Same as the muscle cars!
BUT- You still have to consider the historic impact of the GIBSON Les Pauls- the FACT that there are so many imitators says something in and of itself! They're trying to cash in and ride the 'PR wave' as it was described earlier. (Can't completely blame them....) I see it as like trying to get an autograph from a celebrity impersonator- it looks the same maybe, but IT ISN'T- it's just a pretender sucking up the residue of something greater than themselves! And in the process diluting some of the greatness with imitation crap. Maybe it's just what some might want- after all, we've ALL heard of the copies, so maybe they have their place, but it's not going to be a lasting place in history like the original REAL item. Elvis is famous in a way that can't be stopped or truly provided by an impersonator, get what I mean? There's a MYSTIQUE to a LP that a copy will never and can never eclipse! That's what I mean by there's just SOMETHING about a LP- something beyond just the guitars themselves. Here on the JCF I'd expect most of you can identify with what I'm saying- it's part of what the love of guitars/music is, to me- part of the essense. I don't feel they are just guitars, but instruments that hold and convey emotion and add much more to my life than just the money or the sum of their parts- they are greater than the sum of their parts IMHO. It's like, a religious experience, man! Work with me here! LOL

Same to you Zakk!!!! LMAO

[charvelguy]

I'm pretty sure Greco was making chambered variations on the LP designs long before Gibson was. They also had a variation on the shape of the top. Let us not forget, Gibson joined ranks of the copiers with Orville.

PRS, too, had been making LP 'copies' back in the late 70's. I recall Alex Lifeson had a PRS LP back on the Hemispheres tour. Who else recently had a single cut made for them and Gibson sued PRS for the design?

I'm sure there's nothing like a great Gibson Les Paul just like PRS players say there's nothing like a great single cut that looks like an LP copy.

How about theose Heritage guys too? After all, it is a former Gibson plant using the very same tooling and machinery with some variations. They were former Gibson employees, they should know the quality (and lack of due to management) as well as the 'mystique' quite intimately.

[Jeff Albertson]

Above two bring up a good point in a round-about way.

Knock off...define it?

Now somebody tell exactly how many luthier/builders are still at Gibson that worked there in '57 or '59 or '68? The Glory years...you know where all the RI's are coming from? There a knock off for you a RI built 20 years later! Gibson has changed ownership maybe 10 times from the start until now. Not to mention changing states at least once (for cheaper labor).

All Gibson does is "knock offs". Personally I think ESP or Tokai or Heritage or Derrig or Who-ever has just as much right to the LP-type design as modern day Gibson.

I'm mean at least JCMI has kept or brought back capable hands like Shannon, Wilson, even Grover.

Here's your Gibson master builder:

General Manufacturing Positions - Nashville, TN

Reference Number: M-GENM

Gibson Guitar Corp. the world leader in musical instruments is accepting applications at its Prestige Division. We are looking for quality conscious craftspeople to be part of our team producing the highest quality guitars and drums in the world. We have several immediate openings for the full-time manufacturing positions.

Woodworking, manufacturing, production, carpentry, or detail work experience of some type preferred-but will train. High School education or equivalent required. Some overtime required. Gibson offers a competitive wage (increase after 90 days) with a full benefit package including medical, dental, 401k, and an employee purchase program.

Apply in person at employment security division:

NO PHONE CALLS, PLEASE

Apply in person at employment security division

Date Posted: 4/2/2007 11:52:20 AM

General Labor (Electric Division) - Nashville, TN

Reference Number: GL-GLED

The Nashville Electric Division is now accepting applications for several manufacturing positions on both 1st and 2nd shift in positions such as hand sanders, adjusters, machine operators, buffers, and builders. Woodworking, manufacturing, production, carpentry or detail work experience preferred. H.S. diploma or GED required. All qualified applicants must be able to lift 25lbs, stand while working for an 8 hour period and work in a dusty environment. Please send resumes to or fill out applications at:

Gibson Electric Division

641 Massman Dr.

Nashville, TN 37210

Gibson Electric Division

641 Massman Dr.

Nashville, TN 37210

They're looking for some dude with a GED, who can handle a craftsman chissle and will work for $7.15/hr. Okay, maybe ESP or Tokai doesn't have Bob Villa hacking out fretboards but.....now really, who's knocking off what?

[hippietim]