PLayed a real LES PAUL for the first time

[Jeff Albertson]

Yippie-skippie has a good point, too. Some people are just "gay for Gibson".

[SEEGERMANY]

"There is absolutley NO way Gibson can justify the horse-shit prices they charge....No way."

And you think Jackson/Charvel can? What about PRS and Suhr prices? I can name more. It blows my mind at how many people bellyache over the price of a three thousand dollar Les Paul yet they'll piss off $2500 in a heartbeat over a two piece body, bolt on neck, and a neck thinner than a ghost's clit. If ya can't afford a Gibson, suck it up and quit flogging the horse.

And after the Charvel Lynch run, no one should bitch about Gibson's quality control.

[hippietim]

USA Gibson's now start at $349 for a Melody Maker. They offer Les Pauls starting at around $799. I still have yet to find all these rotten Gibson's that everyone talks about. I can walk in to GC any day of the week and the Gibson's they have on the wall are great. The most disappointing new Gibson I've played in the last several years was a Firebird at the Durham GC. It was really mediocre so I passed. I was really bummed because I actually called ahead to see if they had the particular model because I planned on buying it. I had played one at the Falls Church, VA GC and it was smokin' good. Firebirds are ugly but they sound killer with those mini-hums. I called the VA store and it was gone. D'oh.

What is the cheapest normal retail price you can find for a USA J/C? I got a sale list from a J/C dealer and the cheapest "blowout" Charvel price was $1450 for a 1 hum natural finish guitar. Presumably the "normal" price was more like $1800. You can get a truly kick ass Gibson Les Paul for that price. Debating which is better is pointless because it's a matter of preference but I think the labor and materials involved in making a Les Paul is a good bit more than a plain finished bolt-on Charvel.

As for the $7.15 Gibson worker. Who the hell do you think is making Fenders? Charvels? Jacksons? Carvins? PRS? Do you really think they're all employing highly skilled luthiers when they get hired on? Hell no.

[hippietim]

Yippie-skippie has a good point, too. Some people are just "gay for Gibson".

FYI, my zzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz's were for you.

[SEEGERMANY]

In all fairness, there are some Gibson duds out there. Hell, I own one. It's a great piece of wood, great tone, and cool as all hell. However, the paint job and the gap between the fretboard and neck infuriates me everytime I pick it up. But the same can be said for my Charvels/Jacksons, Fenders, and various other guitars.

I'm a Gibson fanatic and one dud out of the dozens I've owned is not too shabby of a record. Granted, it's not acceptable, but nothings perfect.

[Jeff Albertson]

In all fairness, there are some Gibson duds out there. Hell, I own one. It's a great piece of wood, great tone, and cool as all hell. However, the paint job and the gap between the fretboard and neck infuriates me everytime I pick it up. But the same can be said for my Charvels/Jacksons, Fenders, and various other guitars.

I'm a Gibson fanatic and one dud out of the dozens I've owned is not too shabby of a record. Granted, it's not acceptable, but nothings perfect.

Dude...I have 15 or 16 Les Paul's and not the crank-a-roo cheap-o's. I've had gagillions over the years. They are the same plain-ass guitar they've been since the 50's. Which is fine, except for the price tag.

A (non Modern Eagle) PRS is CNC cut..the whole thing is precise and finished perfectly...well worth the $1800-$3000
A (USA) Jackson or BCR is hand made by a skilled dude...well worth the $1500-$3000
A Gibson Les Paul is hacked out by a 1920's routing machine which replicates 10 at a time of them from a template. It's a cheap-o whack job keystone cops process. Yet the price is gone thu the roof...$3400 for a Custom!

No freakin way they can justify the $...none. If a what freakin nit-wit ants to defend a melody maker or faded mahogonny with a "straight" face, that's a different story. They're cheap and you get your $225 worth. Now a $2400 Standard is a different deal all together.

A Standard at $2400...what a joke! At $1599 MAP it would be priced right. I never said they were all shitty guitars. I will say they build quality on about 75% that hits the street is no better than a Squire at $200.

If you feel good spending that kind of cash and getting what your getting...I got no problem with you. To say it's worth that kind of money...now that's a joke!

Hell, escpecially when you could just ride to Aspen with me and get one for free?

[RacerX]

Maybe they get shitty when they ship west of the Mississippi?!

[SEEGERMANY]

Hey Ron, could you make that the Texas-Louisiana border instead?

[SEEGERMANY]

I have 15 or 16 Les Paul's and not the crank-a-roo cheap-o's. I've had gagillions over the years. They are the same plain-ass guitar they've been since the 50's.

I will say they build quality on about 75% that hits the street is no better than a Squire at $200.

If you feel good spending that kind of cash and getting what your getting

Ok, so you own 15 or 16 Pauls and have had gagillions of them over the years. So, at what point did you finally decide they were duds?

[Jeff Albertson]

Ok, so you own 15 or 16 Pauls and have had gagillions of them over the years. I'm a transexual. So, at what point did you finally decide they were duds?

I would say that I have rejected 5 for every one I kept. Why do you think so many Les Pauls are listed on Ebay at any given time? Some dude buys a LP realizes it's a total turd. Spins it around two weeks later. Probably makes $50. Take any brand new Les Paul out of the box and tell me how high the action is set. Easily 1/2" off the board at 12...now what are they trying to hide?

Why reject..you ask. Manufacturing defects. Let me tell you NEVER special order a Les Paul...you will get phucked!

I buy quite a few on close-out from some excellent dealers or hand pick mine. Buy a Gibson..make sure you either hand pick it or get a rock solid return policy. You don't have to agree with me, just heed the words.....if I have to read ANOTHER pissy thread about somebody's brand new Standard has a warped neck, cross threaded truss rod and dented frets, I'm going to freakin puke.

[Mr.Lizardman]

Gibson factory spec is more like 3/16 or something....
Ok, so you own 15 or 16 Pauls and have had gagillions of them over the years. So, at what point did you finally decide they were duds?
And why didn't you just stop buying them if you dislike them so much? Maybe I could help ya with getting some of them out of the way....

[Superfly]

Is that Lemmy in the background?

[hippietim]

Jeff, is this how most people react when they meet you?

Wow, Zakk Wylde is so cool. He's got his "I sat on a motorcycle in a show room once" colors on. And what a unique pose - it's really rare that we see Zakk flipping the bird. What an inspiration.

[Jeff Albertson]

Gibson factory spec is more like 3/16 or something....
Ok, so you own 15 or 16 Pauls and have had gagillions of them over the years. So, at what point did you finally decide they were duds?
And why didn't you just stop buying them if you dislike them so much? Maybe I could help ya with getting some of them out of the way....

I guess this is where it gets comical, seems like I always get to spar with the militant Gibson fans. Just like poor Hippity Chick, you'ld think like I stole his prom date, took naked pictures of her AND knocked her up!

Look over my posts, I never said they are ALL crap. Just way too many of them are AND they've just gone haywire with the pricing structure.

Let's say you walked in Whatever Guitarshop and the guy had 20 different brands of guitars hanging on the wall. He says to you, I'll sell you whatever guitar you want...whatever brand. Then he told you that 75% of the guitars that come in from brand X have problems, would you argue with him? I guess you could but I don't think you would change his mind.

This is not directed any anyone in particular, but I always find that it's always "one guy with a '94 Standard with a busted headstock who recently got a new Studio off Ebay" that wants to carrry the Gibson torch. Some dude that hasn't seen anything but what been flung up on the Guitar Center wall and 178,000 Gibson Slash/Zakk adds in G1 and Guitar World.

Last year over 65 BRAND NEW Les Paul USA (Standards), Customs, Historics went through my hands. Same thing for each of the 5 years before that. I opend all of the boxes that were closed at the factory...stapled and taped. 30+% of the total population had a serious issue that would affect playability and 75% of the total population had grossly obvious cosmetic defects. DO you have any idea how many large independant dealers have in house repair people just to remanufacture new Gibson guitars?

Look at the frequent Gibson sellers on Ebay..there's two reasons why they do that 1.Exporting to other countries 2. Sell phucked up guitars AS IS and not have to deal with warranty issues.

Got some spare time and want to prove me wrong? Try an experiement. Order 10 Les Pauls (of one particular model) from Musicians Friend with the infamous No Hassle return policy. Open them up and look 'em over good and evaluate them like you were considering keeping one. Now how many are poorly alligned, have pitiful fretwork, bad binding, a deformed truss nut or bad clear or a marred fretboard or a stripped strap mount or a poorly mounted pick up ring or unlevel frets or any combination of the former?

I got nothing to prove and nothing to sell you ON....buy what you like. If anything I'm guilty of picking up closeout LP's and SELL them on Ebay. If your happy paying top dollar for a guitar that has some problems or needs $300 worth of set up work and parts, I'm okay with that. You know the drill...when your new $3800 Custom Authentic '58 LP arrives on friday and you find cracked binding, the low E string won't stop buzzing (no matter how high you set it) and has crooked bridge posts, I'm going to have a great ole time kicking you in the nuts!
:ROTF:

[roodyrocker]

I own two Les Pauls, one is a 2002 Les Paul Custom white/gold that I bought brand new and the other is Les Paul Studio in Blue Teal Flip Flop I got used from E-Bay. At the time I went looking for a white Custom, there were two in the store I bought it from plus I tried others at other dealers. While none were horrible by any means, I do feel I picked the best of the bunch available to me. I also played two ZW Bullseyes, one in black/white, the other in Camo and was sort of disappointed in the feel and playability of both of them.
The used Les Paul Studio off E-Bay played surprizingly better than I was expecting for a lower end Les Paul and if anyone is looking for a Les Paul on a budget I'd recommend the Studio version.
Bottom line is that for me Jackson's quality has traditionally been better than other manufacturers and the feel and playability to me is superior. Therefore I have a hard time spending money on any other brands anymore even though my Les Paul Custom and Studio are perfectly good guitars. Just have to try out those Gibby's before buying. And yes, I agree they are over priced these days!

Rudy

https://www.wickedrocks.com