I thought Gibson quality problems with overexagerrated, but...

[Ralph E.]

Ralph, you forgot the Six Million Dollar Man solution: We can rebuild it.

Yeah, but that'll take another 15 months and it'll come out just as fucked up anyway... :ROTF:

[hippietim]

Yeah, but that'll take another 15 months and it'll come out just as fucked up anyway... :ROTF:

True but think about how cool it is that whenever you start to play fast it seems even faster because everything else around you slows down!

[yard dawg]

I see crappy Les Pauls everywhere I go now. Every store has them. Im just going to get the PRS single cut and be done with it. The stores here have them and they are NICE. Everyone Ive played is just as good as the others. Awesome QC at PRS.

Also about the LP QC in nashville..YOU CANT EXPECT TOO MUCH FOR WHAT GIBSON PAYS THE PEOPLE....IF THEY OFFER A DECENT WAGE THEN MAYBE SOMEONE WOULD HAVE A LITTLE MORE PRIDE IN THERE WORK. ITS EASIER TO DEMAND QUALITY FROM A $20 HR GUY THEN A $10 HR GUY.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

A big reason I switched to an SG from Les Paul-style guitars was the weight--I think the weight relieved ones we've been getting at work are great, especially the Studio Premium tops!

[kelly user]

I see crappy Les Pauls everywhere I go now. Every store has them. Im just going to get the PRS single cut and be done with it. The stores here have them and they are NICE. Everyone Ive played is just as good as the others. Awesome QC at PRS.

Also about the LP QC in nashville..YOU CANT EXPECT TOO MUCH FOR WHAT GIBSON PAYS THE PEOPLE....IF THEY OFFER A DECENT WAGE THEN MAYBE SOMEONE WOULD HAVE A LITTLE MORE PRIDE IN THERE WORK. ITS EASIER TO DEMAND QUALITY FROM A $20 HR GUY THEN A $10 HR GUY.

They agreed to the payment, it wasn't like they were making $20 an hour, then gibson raped them and took them down to $10, it doesn't matter what they are paid, quality is a must.
you didn't see those japan people making the jackson pro's making shit kicker guitars. i can guarantee, they weren't paid that much.
if they don't want to do the work right fire their ass and get someone else that will do it right.
people like you is the reason why ford and chevy are going out of business.

if gibson double the wages of all the employees the guitar price will more than likely double as well.

[mountain dave]

I too recently had a bad case of GAS for a Les Paul Standard. I went to two local shops who are authorized Gibson dealers. Between the two, I looked at 10 standards, not one of them was without issues. Anything from sloppy fretwork, crooked binding, or other finish flaws. A couple of them played really nice and had a good tone, but overall I was rather dissappointed. I'm in no way saying there are no good Gibsons, maybe my local dealers need to be more paticular about what they put out to sell, but I couldn't believe they wanted over 2 grand with these issues.

[rjohnstone]

Maybe if the dealers sent all the crappy ones back and REFUSED to accept them, Gibson would wake up.
Remember.. the dealers can send them back, they just chose not too.

[Chrisb]

Speaking of silliness, your assertion that some Warmoth Les Paul "will smoke the pants off of any Gibson" gets my vote for silliest post of the day. I had a Gibson Melody Maker with just a single P-90 that I'd put up to your challenge - I paid $100 for it.

This seems about as big of an exaggeration as my statement that a Warmoth LP would smoke any Gibson LP. What I should have said is smoke any LP made in the last 5 years cause I haven't played a decent LP made from after that time. Not a one.

Its a bit of an exaggeration to say they made the best instruments, certainly they did make their fair share of incredible guitars but the image and Gibson name is very much responsible for their extreme popularity. Cause nowadays we know it certainly isn't quality :P

I'd still say though nowadays your much better off getting a Warmoth LP instead of a Gibson LP. Bolt-on or no its got a 90% chance of being a much better guitar.

As for dealers sending them back...Gibson is EXTREMELY difficult to deal with, to hear my guitar tech tell it they were by the far most difficult guitar company for him to deal with. With the duds and the hassles you would think he would tell them to take their dealer status and shove it, however Gibson also made him more money than any other brand he carried. Alot more.

[rjohnstone]

As for dealers sending them back...Gibson is EXTREMELY difficult to deal with, to hear my guitar tech tell it they were by the far most difficult guitar company for him to deal with. With the duds and the hassles you would think he would tell them to take their dealer status and shove it, however Gibson also made him more money than any other brand he carried. Alot more.

I have a feeling if the QC issues continue as they are now, he won't be making a ton of money very much longer.

And any company worth their salt should not make it so difficult for a dealer to send back poor quality products. Never mind the fact that it should have never left the factory to begin with.
That alone speaks volumes about Gibson's own integrity... or lack thereof.

[MichaelLitvak]

screw gibson i ruther get a knock off that has similar tone ..
i have a les paul knock off and the tone is dead on.. the quality isnt of course but for 100 bux its worth it

remember you are mostly paying for the "gibson" logo on the headstock

[mountain dave]

screw gibson i ruther get a knock off that has similar tone ..
i have a les paul knock off and the tone is dead on.. the quality isnt of course but for 100 bux its worth it

remember you are mostly paying for the "gibson" logo on the headstock

Exactly what I say. That's why after much research I ordered an Edwards E-LP-90. The worst thing I heard about them was they weren't quite as nice as a Gibson LP, I also heard many say they compared pretty favorably to a Standard. If it's in the ball park tone wise, and cost me a third the price of a Standard, I'll be a happy camper. It should be here this weekend, I'll give a review after the "honeymoon" is over.

[DonP]

Don,
First of all, I was wrong, Gibson has been doing this a while. It still doesn't make my point any less valid. I'm not saying all LPs with holes suck. What I am saying is why doesn't Gibson put this on their website? Why don't they advertise this point. It may not be an issue to you, but I'm sure there are some that feel it is an issue.

They don't put what type of glue they use, what type of neck joint, etc. either. The real question is does it impact the tone. If you do a blind test between a holy LP and a non-holy LP and can hear the difference, then don't buy the one with holes. But I think Gibson isn't worried about hole or no holes because LPs keep selling.

Just check out lespualforum and you'll find TONS of people who don't like it. SOme people want a solid body. For that price, I don't blame them...

I've been on the LP since Feb 2003 and have 2,274 post (most of them bullshit ) I've seen plenty of holy threads, tenon threads, etc.

Either way, it's a bad way to get the desired effect. Instead of using "premium" mahogany for a $2200 guitar, they use "lesser" mahogany and just drill holes in it. It's a cost cutting measure, plain and simple...

Yes, it is. But you are missing the bigger picture - a Class 5 has many more holes (even shittier wood) and goes for way more than $2200. I've gotten into plenty of fights with Class 5 owners on the LPF Like "Gibson" said - if you want the good wood, pony up for a Historic. If they put good wood on a Standard, how could they force people to pay $5K for a Historic? It's all about supply and demand, and marketing. Gibson is really good at it. They feel if you don't like it, go buy something else. But they know they got you because something else just isn't a Gibson. For those who buy Agiles and ESPees and Edwards, more power to them. If a wanabee LP makes them happy, so be it.

But saying its how Les Pauls are made is not quite right. Most people, including Gibson with the introduction of the thin binding and the flame top, want the LP to be like the 59's. 59's were not drilled up. So it's not really how they are made, or how they WERE made. Gibson bowed done to the older man that's bitching that LP's have gotten too heavy. That is their target market so I guess it's just good business for them...

Like I said, it's how they get you to pony up for a Historic. If you want the good wood, pay up.

I'll stick with my 11 pound, solid mahogany, 1980 Les Paul Heritage 80 Standard. All the Les Paul I need...

Nothing wrong with that (well, except for the 3 piece neck). I'd like to score a Heritage 80 Elite even though it has an ebony fretboard. I have a '77 Custom without holes, a 96 Premium Plus, and my R0 besides my 2002 Std. Each has a different set of pickups and a different personality. I like them all, including my Jacksons Charvels, and even Arias. It's a free country, buy all the guitars you can as long as you can get away with it

[Ace]

I am fortunate to be around a great deal of high end guitars on a regular basis, and I can tell you my opinions on Gibsons is this: Get the really cheap ones or the really expensive ones.
The Gibson Faded series is one of the best deals out there on American made guitars. Same with the Highway 1 Fenders. The satin finishes are durable, smoother feeling and IMO look just fine. I play a Faded SG and I have many friends who are rocking Les Paul Specials and Studios and suff, and for the money they are awesome guitars.

On the flip side, nothing puts out vibe like a custom shop 1960 VOS Les Paul reissue. If I could have any production guitar today, that would probably be it. I've played several and they are all awesome. I've played a whole lot of Gibson Custom shop pieces, and a TON of Standards and I can tell you the Custom Shop guitars are 10X nicer.

[hippietim]

Someone please tell me where all these shitty Gibsons are? I walk into GC and pick up Gibsons all the time that are very nice.

Oh Chrisb, my R4 was made in the last 5 years and I would gladly put that up against the best Warmoth Les Paul you can present. And I wasn't kidding about the Melody Maker - unfortunately I don't have it so I can't really bring the challenge (but I know how great it was).

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Tim you can borrow my Melody Maker