All manufacturer have to many model of thew same guitar

[CharvelRocker]

Not running a custom shop?

Didn't mean it literally The point I meant is they aren't going to make Every possible model they can. Fender has more variety then most, and if you can't find something you like you've got an issue.

[necrotechno]

I knew what he meant when he said they weren't running a custom shop.

I don't know what that model is. I'm assuming it's a CS build. Small pic, can't tell if it has string trees or not. Can't see the neck heel. Can't tell what the fingerboard radius is. Still has a crap tremolo with floppy saddles and a screw-in arm. Removed the distinctive pickguard, might as well be an Ibanez. And I'm sure it's hideously overpriced. Again, this just drives business to Warmoth.

I'm on dial-up, not doing YouTube. But I'm sure Jeff Beck has figured out ways to compensate for when using the trem puts the guitar out of tune. Most people just want a tremolo that doesn't go wildly out of tune when they dive it. They actually had a decent trem on a Japanese import model in the 80's. Haven't seen it since.

[Blazer]

I knew what he meant when he said they weren't running a custom shop.

I don't know what that model is. I'm assuming it's a CS build. Small pic, can't tell if it has string trees or not. Can't see the neck heel. Can't tell what the fingerboard radius is. Still has a crap tremolo with floppy saddles and a screw-in arm. Removed the distinctive pickguard, might as well be an Ibanez. And I'm sure it's hideously overpriced. Again, this just drives business to Warmoth.

NOPE, the guitar in the picture is the "American deluxe stratocaster" which is a regular production Fender solid, it has a two point tremolo with pop-in arm, 15 3/4" radius, bevelled neck joint and no string tree. The guitar also has locking tuners and a roller string tree to keep it in tune.

I'm on dial-up, not doing YouTube. But I'm sure Jeff Beck has figured out ways to compensate for when using the trem puts the guitar out of tune. Most people just want a tremolo that doesn't go wildly out of tune when they dive it. They actually had a decent trem on a Japanese import model in the 80's. Haven't seen it since.

Because those Japanese bridges were notorious tone suckers, I had a strat which had one and it sounded really shrill. Jeff Beck has a roller nut, two point trem and locking tuners on his guitar that's why he's always in tune.

[necrotechno]

I don't know if we're talking about the same Jap trem. There were a few.

I've never dealt with the LSR roller nut. Heard some others say the ball bearings can fall out. Can't seem to get a consistent description of the fingerboard wood. Some sites say Ebony, others Rosewood. Figured tops need matching headstock overlays. Trem is still crap, but could likely be swapped for a Wilkinson. Humbucker and no pickguard, it's just not a Strat. $1400 street, I could put together a Warmoth for that.

[Blazer]

I don't know if we're talking about the same Jap trem. There were a few.

I've never dealt with the LSR roller nut. Heard some others say the ball bearings can fall out. Can't seem to get a consistent description of the fingerboard wood. Some sites say Ebony, others Rosewood. Figured tops need matching headstock overlays. Trem is still crap, but could likely be swapped for a Wilkinson. Humbucker and no pickguard, it's just not a Strat. $1400 street, I could put together a Warmoth for that.

Tch, you're a tough one.

Anyway, I really doubt that Warmoth would really make you any happier, since their standard Strat bodies come with the big heel you hate so much.

I guess in my own case I have been spoiled by my 1989 Squier Strat and by having grown long fingers so the heel is no obstruction to me.

[necrotechno]

Warmoth does a contoured heel for an extra fee. And a chambered body. And a tilt-back Strat headstock. And binding on the body and fingerboard. And custom inlay. And different neck shapes. And any kind of fret wire. And any kind of woods. And any kind of bridge rout. And any standard kind of paintjob. And the Jackson-style compound radius fingerboard... is standard.

Just went through the entire Fender site. Yep, nothing on there I'd want to own. The one Fender I do own — a P-Bass Jr. — they apparently don't even make anymore. The cool paintjob of the James Burton Tele is over Asswood.

Some of this shit is just unforgivable.

[Blazer]

Just went through the entire Fender site. Yep, nothing on there I'd want to own. The one Fender I do own — a P-Bass Jr. — they apparently don't even make anymore. The cool paintjob of the James Burton Tele is over Asswood.

Some of this shit is just unforgivable.

Well EVH's frankenstein and his chopped up Ibanez destroyer were made from "Asswood" and you can not state that he got a bad sound from those. Plus his Frankenstein has a normal vintage radius.

You can bitch about Fender all you like but don't forget that it's all in the fingers, a good guitarplayer can shred on a stock Fender no problem.

[necrotechno]

I don't like EVH's sound. Never did. But you can put a hot pickup in anything and you can't discern the woods. Look at the Petrucci model(s).

And I never said I was a good guitar player. That's why I need a better guitar. What makes it so sad is that making a better guitar doesn't cost more to produce if it's done right to begin with.

[skorb]

Warmoth does a contoured heel for an extra fee. And a chambered body. And a tilt-back Strat headstock. And binding on the body and fingerboard. And custom inlay. And different neck shapes. And any kind of fret wire. And any kind of woods. And any kind of bridge rout. And any standard kind of paintjob. And the Jackson-style compound radius fingerboard... is standard.

Just went through the entire Fender site. Yep, nothing on there I'd want to own. The one Fender I do own — a P-Bass Jr. — they apparently don't even make anymore. The cool paintjob of the James Burton Tele is over Asswood.

Some of this shit is just unforgivable.

geez you are very very particular in your expectations. what do you expect being that picky. "unforgivable" from a guitar company? that term is for quality issues. not selection. so don't buy their shit.

hey, I'm picky too. but I understand that most Fenders aren't my thing. that's why I went w/ Charvel. but they do make hotrodded Fenders these days. what's wrong with a strat head and a string tree? some of the world's best players used/use them. people here pay insane upcharges for that.

by the way, not sure what you're playing, but my basswood Charvel Model 2 has tone for days. if you don't like something, can you just say that without the disparagement?

I also have a great Fender Tele body I mated up with a custom Warmoth tele neck with jumbo frets and birdseye maple, so I'm there with you on Fender not always offering what I'd want. I'm not into little frets and single coil bridge pups. so I went to Warmoth for a killer neck and I put a minihum in my Tele with locking tuners. it fucking screams and stays in tune great.

I also have a Gibson V that is sublime.

there's stuff out there for everybody bro.

[necrotechno]

No. You're not getting me. It's not my personal preferences I'm talking about here, it's just how Fender could basically make their entire product line better with a little more modern thinking.

21-fret necks. What is the purpose? The argument against a 24-fretter is that there is a naturally occurring harmonic at the 24th fret, so that's where the neck pickup should go rather than a fret. Now, that's not technically true all the time, but I can respect the argument. But 21 frets? No excuse.

Giant neck heels. Why? Just round off the corner and use a different style plate. It's just too easy.

Truss rod adjustment at the body joint? If it's done like a Music Man or a Peavey, fine. But if you have to remove the neck to adjust the truss rod, that's just stupid.

String trees, 6-point fulcrum trems and saddles that can shift around. Everybody knows they're just tuning problems waiting to happen. These problems have already been fixed a hundred different ways.

Single coils that aren't hum-cancelling. Bill Lawrence moved from Pennsylvania to California so he could work more closely with Fender. His personal line of pickups is entirely hum-cancelling. Plus, every model is less expensive than anything with the name Fender on it. Fender put more Lace pickups on their guitars than they have Lawrence (the SCN's). Most of the Lace pickups didn't sound very good to begin with, and were only "hum-reduced." Put Bill Lawrence's vast experience to work across the product line, not just a few limited edition models.

12 inches is the industry standard fretboard radius. Anything less than 10, or more than 14, feels awkward to most people. Unless it's a vintage-specific reissue, there's no excuse for a 7.25" radius. Or a 15.75" for that matter.

Fender has licensed its headstock shapes to Warmoth, which uses a 10-16" conical taper fingerboard radius. The small Strat headstock Warmoth also offers in a tiltback (scarf joint) design. Why, if they're so super-protective of their trademarks, would Fender license an aftermarket manufacturer to make copies of their products which are superior to anything Fender makes? Very retarded.



On the subject of Linden — aka Basswood — it's mostly my opinion, yes. But it only became regarded as a "tone wood" because it's soft. High volume companies like Ibanez adopted it because it's easier on bandsaw blades.

The myth is that it's "lightweight," which it is. Before finishing. The porous nature of the wood can easily suck up more paint than a harder wood if it isn't sealed properly, rendering its pre-finish weight moot. I have one guitar made of Asswood, a post-Grover Jackson Washburn Mercury series, and it's one of the heaviest guitars I own.

Notice that most guitars made of it come with high-output pickups (Jems, Petruccis, etc.). If you like hot pickups, sure it sound good. I've got a First Act Wal-Mart guitar that is literally made of plywood, a total piece of crap, got it at the flea market for 15 bucks. I put a Gibson Iommi pickup in it and it slaughtered every guitar for miles. But all you could hear was the pickup, not the wood. Put something like a real PAF in your Charvel and see how you like it.

[Blazer]

No. You're not getting me. It's not my personal preferences I'm talking about here, it's just how Fender could basically make their entire product line better with a little more modern thinking.

Thing is, most legendary players like hendrix en Clapton used stock Fenders and he no problem getting their signature sounds from them and that inspired people to get a vintage spec Fender and do the same.

21-fret necks. What is the purpose? The argument against a 24-fretter is that there is a naturally occurring harmonic at the 24th fret, so that's where the neck pickup should go rather than a fret. Now, that's not technically true all the time, but I can respect the argument. But 21 frets? No excuse.

Because not everybody loves the sound of a 24 fret neck, PRS for example has people asking for a 22 fret neck variation of their Custom model, the reason: people wanted the fatter sound from a 22 fret neck model. The Same with Fender, their 21 fret neck guitars have a certain kind of sound that's why they stuck with it.

Giant neck heels. Why? Just round off the corner and use a different style plate. It's just too easy.

Ever saw what Fender was up against when they first launched their Telecaster?

The telecaster was a revelation for players back then because you could reach the 21'th fret wihout any difficulty.

Truss rod adjustment at the body joint? If it's done like a Music Man or a Peavey, fine. But if you have to remove the neck to adjust the truss rod, that's just stupid.

But Fender themselves adressed this problem way back in 1972 when their entire line was given headstock adjusters. Something that they have kept eversince, only their vintage issue models have body adjusters.

String trees, 6-point fulcrum trems and saddles that can shift around. Everybody knows they're just tuning problems waiting to happen. These problems have already been fixed a hundred different ways.

And once again Fender adressed this problem as well, from 1986 on when they introduced the American standard Series, they've had two point fulcrum trems with cast iron saddles, lubricated nuts and rolling string trees.

Single coils that aren't hum-cancelling. Bill Lawrence moved from Pennsylvania to California so he could work more closely with Fender. His personal line of pickups is entirely hum-cancelling. Plus, every model is less expensive than anything with the name Fender on it. Fender put more Lace pickups on their guitars than they have Lawrence (the SCN's). Most of the Lace pickups didn't sound very good to begin with, and were only "hum-reduced." Put Bill Lawrence's vast experience to work across the product line, not just a few limited edition models.

And once again Fender Adressed this problem too. By having humcancelling dummy coils (In their Elite series), wiring the middle single coil so it cancles out hum (on ALL their strat models), by installing Lace sensor pickups and much more recently by develloping their "Vintage noiseless" pickups. Thing is most Fender players love that noisy sound and stick to it working their way around it.

12 inches is the industry standard fretboard radius. Anything less than 10, or more than 14, feels awkward to most people. Unless it's a vintage-specific reissue, there's no excuse for a 7.25" radius. Or a 15.75" for that matter.

But most Fender players would disagree with you. The feel of a vintage fifties fender neck still has a lot of people grinning. You named Ibanez, Joe Satriani wanted his signature model to have the feel of a vintage Fender, that's why his model has a vintage radius, small frets and a non tilt back headstock.

Fender has licensed its headstock shapes to Warmoth, which uses a 10-16" conical taper fingerboard radius. The small Strat headstock Warmoth also offers in a tiltback (scarf joint) design. Why, if they're so super-protective of their trademarks, would Fender license an aftermarket manufacturer to make copies of their products which are superior to anything Fender makes? Very retarded.

Because Fender KNOWS what their customers want. Us guitarists are a very conservative breed, we like the things "As good now as they were back then" which is also the reason why many fender model with which they've tried to re-new their line fell flat on it's face. Take the Fender Talon for example, what never heard of them?

On the subject of Linden — aka Basswood — it's mostly my opinion, yes. But it only became regarded as a "tone wood" because it's soft. High volume companies like Ibanez adopted it because it's easier on bandsaw blades.

NOPE! They've adopted it because of the sound Joe Satriani wanted, prior to having his Ibanez model, he used home made guitars made from Basswood and liked the sound he got from them so much that he stuck with it.

The myth is that it's "lightweight," which it is. Before finishing. The porous nature of the wood can easily suck up more paint than a harder wood if it isn't sealed properly, rendering its pre-finish weight moot. I have one guitar made of Asswood, a post-Grover Jackson Washburn Mercury series, and it's one of the heaviest guitars I own.

But that's not the case with all ash guitars, some of them actually are lighter than Basswood guitars. it just differs from guitar to guitar.

Notice that most guitars made of it come with high-output pickups (Jems, Petruccis, etc.). If you like hot pickups, sure it sound good. I've got a First Act Wal-Mart guitar that is literally made of plywood, a total piece of crap, got it at the flea market for 15 bucks. I put a Gibson Iommi pickup in it and it slaughtered every guitar for miles. But all you could hear was the pickup, not the wood. Put something like a real PAF in your Charvel and see how you like it.

Which is the reason why i love vintage spec humbuckers in my guitars, the Duncan 59 is my favorite kind of humbucker, it is not as hot as an Iommi or a Lawrence but it does have a warmth those hot pickups lack.

In closing, you contineu to prove that you don't really know what's out there and most of your opinions are based on what you think a guitar should be. BUT if you're right and Fender has been wrong all the time, then why is the company still in business, they must have been doing SOMETHING right to last as long as they have.

[necrotechno]

- Hendrix and Clapton started playing Fenders when it was owned by CBS, and prduction values were being scaled back. Custom builders just didn't exist like they do now. Clapton barters off the "mystique" of Blacky, which really isn't a very good guitar. Same with EVH and "Frankenstein."

- The neck pickup is in the same place on a 21-fret as it is on a 22. The 2nd fret doesn't change the sound, so no excuse not to have it.

- The primary design goals behind the Telecaster were making them more cheaply. And that was over 60 years ago.

- I've seen many Fenders (post-1972) with what looks like a headstock truss rod adjuster, but it's really a Rosewood plug.

- The 2-point American Standard trem is not standard across the line. The saddles don't lock down on it, anyway, and the drill holes through the block aren't staggered as they should be.

- As you say, Fender players "work their way around" Cyle 60 hum. Nobody likes it.

- I've read numerous complaints about the 7.25" radius on the Aerodyne series.

- Ibanez was using Asswood before anybody ever heard of Joe Satriani.

- Fender, like many other longstanding American manufacturers, is trading almost entirely on name recognition. That's why they've scaled back the Squier line and put out more "real" Fenders (made in... wherever). Take all the brand names off the guitars, very few people would gravitate towards Fender's current product line.

[skorb]

jesus christ, what a tool.

when you figure out you don't know it all, you'll have more of a clue than you do now.

[cdwillis]

Sorry to interrupt your arguement guys, but I thought I'd add that Van Halen's Ibanez had a korina body and maple neck, not basswood.

[Blazer]

Sorry to interrupt your arguement guys, but I thought I'd add that Van Halen's Ibanez had a korina body and maple neck, not basswood.

I didn't say Basswood, I said Ash. Which according to the vintage Ibanez site is what those Destroyers were made of, Ash

These guitars are not made of korina like an Explorer. Korina, or African Limba, is actually a trade name. The Ibanez version's body is made of ash, and the neck is maple. I might add that there are multiple pieces of wood in both the neck and the body.

.

Which also explains why EVH's destroyer and his Frankenstein sounded so alike.