Calling ALL Jackson board members, Come On Down!

[goodwood]

eh,...its all came down to the way the necks felt for me...kramers were good guitars for the money but it all came down to feel for me...d.m.

...and that's the key right there. The necks feel completely different in most cases...and neck feel is a pretty big factor for a guitar,

[SARJ]

This story...wherever you read it is completely fabrication. george was actually playing Kramers before he had a 'deal' with anyone. He even traded one of his Charvels for a Baretta. In George Lynch's own words:
"Kramer invited Matt Masciandaro, (my tech at the time, now president of ESP), to come to the factory on a day off while we were in NY playing a show. They were going to send a limo for us and take us out to lunch. We ended up partying a little to much and ended up falling asleep parked in the center of the turnpike and being woken up by the cops. We finally showed up at Kramer. They let us use their limo to fall asleep in,( it was parked in the woodshop), and fed us cold pizza when we woke up. They didn't offer me much of a deal so we ended up going with ESP eventually"
As for Kramers not staying in tune...yeah...ok...and for throwing the bodies and necks in the garbage...yeah...OK...
My god...brand loyalty can make people say some very ridiculous things.

I have both American Jackson and Kramer guitars and not judging just by what I own the Kramer guitars are not inferior to Jackson guitars. In fact dollar for dollar I would have to lean toward Kramer.

Anyway, as far as American Series or Focus guitars they are very high quality. Focus is Japanese ESP and American Series is Japanese ESP parts assembled in another location along with some mysterious parts (Larrivee, LaSiDo, Ibanez,etc) assembled at different locations.

As for actual comparisons to Jackson...ok let's take opinion out of it and examine some things. There were a few things Kramer did right (some of their business practices and the their cheaper guitars at the time in the 1980s definitely don't count):
-Kramer had the big deal with Floyd Rose/Jackson used mostly Kahler. Yeah the locking nut for the Kahler behind the nut on the neck...WTF!?
Point for Kramer
-Kramer used Seymour Duncan pickups and were instrumental in contributing to where Seymour Duncan is today-was a custom shop item and now dominant in the industry
Point for Kramer
-Kramer used Schaller hardware and did for Schaller what they did for Seymour Duncan
Point for Kramer
-The endorsement deals they had with many big name players.
Point for Kramer
-They pretty much made everything that people wanted from a Jackson available on the shelf of a music store for less money and no waiting for that Jackson Custom shop order.
Point for Kramer

Now with all of those things going for them, their business practices (one issue being the Gorky Park deal-f'n STUPID), and the outsourcing that 'made' them also broke them with the strike at the Korean neck operation and the backorder situation that developed from it. Also the rumours of execs spending money like crazy and drugs couldn't have added anything positive to the situation.
MINUS 100 Points from Kramer

...and that's how the biggest company becomes a bankrupt company in about 2-3 years.
ESP pretty much exists because of Kramer. Some of the Kramer design elements are still evident in the ESP/LTD guitars today and the quality that ESP achieves is likely twofold...one part being experience gained from building so many guitars and parts for Kramer over that time and the other part being their quality control.

Yours would be the second story/reason I've heard. Interesting. I don't even want to go near the ESP/J. Frog contoversy. I read that story on the Ed Roman site and ummmmm.............it's a 50/50 if it's true or not.

Good evaluation of Kramer axes too.

[AimingHigh]

This is the ad:


My own collection is primarily Kramers--as some may know, I was an avid JCF member until 2002 or so, when I started the KramerForum. But, as someone said a couple of days ago in another post, you deal with the b.s. on the boards and whatnot and it loses its luster a little bit. So I'm keeping a fairly low profile in Kramer-land right now. But if anyone has any Kramer questions, I am more than glad to answer them.
Collection Page: http://www.kramerforum.com/george/kollection/

George

[toejam]

This is the ad:

I remember that ad. Nice headstock in the corner of the window, and Eddie peaking in.

[Snoogans]

Christ, can you imagine the furore if someone was to make an ad like that these days?
A grown man peeking through a child's bedroom window?
He must be a pervert/rapist/murderer/terrorist!
Quick, someone call the Police/press/social services/Oprah!

[thetroy]

I have a "Striker 100ST" neck on some crappy old plywood strat I had lying around (the original neck was broken and logo'd "Applause")

The guitar feels plays and sounds just fine - would sound better if it had some decent pickups but I'm not about to spend any money on a plywood body!

[Pigsnatcher]

Not a big fan

[AimingHigh]

Nice headstock in the corner of the window, and Eddie peaking in.

If I recall correctly, that exact neck was up for sale recently. It was one of Eddie's, or a spare.. Mike W of VintageKramer was telling me he was in the running for it, but passed.

George

[eddie_van_earache]

yep bodies ans necks in the trash... every fucking time..... except my nightswan of course...

[Frigo89]

yep bodies ans necks in the trash... every fucking time..... except my nightswan of course...

I think this guy has some sort of brain problem, why would you do that when you can make money back off them?

why buy a full guitar for one part, then toss the guitar, when hell, you could part it out and make even more money?

some people are Genuinly stupid

[xbolt]

I own a few 80s Kramers among a few others (Gibson, Dean, ESP, Robin, Hamer, Washburn, etc) and would say that the earlier
US/Sport and Candian-LaSiDo/Larrivee are of very high quality as are the later ESP/American units.

Hell even the low end ESP built Focus is nothing to sneeze at with their factory floyd rose.
Probably the best deal in town for the kids that wanted something that would stay in tune
while they tried to cram the bar right through the body.
The variety/evolution in Kramer woods and necks is actually a nice thing cuz from Maple, Ash, Mahogany, Alder, Poplar or R1 to R5 or baseball bats to fast thin necks...
You will find one you love!

The early Kahler single locking floyd copy and Kahler Flyer which were offered on the early Jackson US and Jap guitars were way less than optimal.
Not to mention the "behind the nut lock" ???
Some people like em but if you want a real solid trem, the Floyd is the stuff.
Heck it's even offered on the high end J/Cs today along with a licenced version on their cheaper units.
I for one would own alot more older vintage Jackson/Charvel guitars if it wasn't for the trem/nut.

I haven't tried any new Kramers but I have played alot of new Jacksons $2-3+K and they look really sweet
and seem very well built. However, every one I have tried has nearly ripped my fingers off from the fret ends sticking out...
maybe the neck wood is not seasoned as it was in the day?
Easy fix but still not great for long term PR.

As far as comparing 80s Kramer vs Jackson for woods, necks, bodies, finishes, etc...both made great shreddables.
Both, as most other mfgs, entered and still cater to the low buck crap axe market to feed the masses.
Both were innovative and copied from each other...

I have my third Nightswan on the way as we speak...
and
my first 80s Jackson Custom Shop on the way...Time will tell...I highly doubt I will be disapointed.