Why is ESP more popular than Jackson?

[Endrik]

I've tried at least 70 of 'em and only 5 sounded decent to me

[joshulator]

There are alot of jacksons without tone control and without middle pickups if you didn't notice that by now..

I suppose the SL2H gets me around the no middle pickup desire, but it still has the tone control. That's as close as I get if I want to stick with a super strat in the USA line (which I do).

Speaking of which, maybe I'll get a snow white SL2H. I'm starting to have my suspicions that ESP is using Ping for their M-II Floyds. If so, that's a turn off for me. Even if it works just as well, when I'm spending over a grand I like my stuff to be name brand. If the Ping was really exactly the same thing as an Original Floyd, they wouldn't be bothering to differentiate the two. There'd be no P marking near the trem arm, and you wouldn't be able to buy one for 20 bucks less than the other. If they were the SAME, they wouldn't be DIFFERENT.

So, maybe I'll be getting a Jackson after all....

[Bengal]

I suppose the SL2H gets me around the no middle pickup desire, but it still has the tone control. That's as close as I get if I want to stick with a super strat in the USA line (which I do).

Speaking of which, maybe I'll get a snow white SL2H. I'm starting to have my suspicions that ESP is using Ping for their M-II Floyds. If so, that's a turn off for me. Even if it works just as well, when I'm spending over a grand I like my stuff to be name brand. If the Ping was really exactly the same thing as an Original Floyd, they wouldn't be bothering to differentiate the two. There'd be no P marking near the trem arm, and you wouldn't be able to buy one for 20 bucks less than the other. If they were the SAME, they wouldn't be DIFFERENT.

So, maybe I'll be getting a Jackson after all....

You could always turn the tone into another volume. Seperate volumes so you could do some sweet kill switch staccato...

[joshulator]

You could always turn the tone into another volume. Seperate volumes so you could do some sweet kill switch staccato...

That thought has cross my mind before, but don't like it for two reasons.

One is that I don't like to modify my guitars. Not sure if that's normal or not, but it is what it is.

Two is which one is which? In one sense it makes sense that the existing volume knob goes with the neck pickup and that the former tone knob goes with the bridge pickup. This way, in the visual sense, they match up. But I pretty much use the bridge pickup all the time, so it sorta makes sense that the most accessible knob (the existing volume knob) control the bridge pickup.

Oh the trials and tribulations in my life...

[Bengal]

Joshulator,
Changing a tone pot to a volume pot is really not that much of a modification. It can be put back very easy. It's really no big deal. Your not going to lose any value over it or anything. Not like your taking the finish off the back of the neck...

I would make the tone pot the neck volume...

[dangerous_dave]

nothing against ESP but most of those LTDs sound like crap

I guess I must have gotten one of the good ones...

[goodwood]

Oh, ok....you're right, they didn't take that from Jackson.....they took it from Charvel.

At the same time I priced out a ESP (not LTD) DV8 which would have been almost $2000 more with the same options and the wait would have been 2 &1/2 months longer.

I still say Kramer but for the most part Kramer stepped in to (it could be argued) put a 'Jackson/Charvel'-like guitar on every shelf.

I can't argue with you about the price of a Custom ESP. HEAVY COIN!!

I enjoyed your reply.

nothing against ESP but most of those LTDs sound like crap

Now THAT is a BS statement...one I'd expect from a 15 year old who knows nothing of what he speaks. Yeah...those mahogany bodies (the entire EC series?) and top end pickups (EMG or Seymour Duncan) always sound like crap...what a TOOL!!!

[DonP]

Because they give them away on the Price is Right? (didn't read the whole thread to see if someone mentioned that already).

[CharvelRocker]

Now THAT is a BS statement...one I'd expect from a 15 year old who knows nothing of what he speaks. Yeah...those mahogany bodies (the entire EC series?) and top end pickups (EMG or Seymour Duncan) always sound like crap...what a TOOL!!!

Not defending Endrik, but not every ESP/LTD is good. I've played a lot more import Jacksons that sounded good then LTDs. The KH-202 I had for a short time was good despite its god awful trem, and a shop here has Viper of some kind that is the cats ass in terms of looks and sound, but the neck was repaired and plays like a Squier That said, I think part of why alot of ESPs subjectively sound like crap is there use of woods; a lot of them use agahis (or however its spelled). That wood imo is one step above plywood and not by much. LTDs also tend to suffer from what Schecters do; they feel really "blah". Nothing special about them. they have no character. Not to say Jacksons aren't like that, there aren't many X series I've fallen in love with, but IMO Pro and MG series kick every comparable LTD, Schecter, and Ibanez that I've played ass in terms of character. I don't know what the point of that was but hey I needed to say it :ROTF:

[goodwood]

Not defending Endrik, but not every ESP/LTD is good.

Oh...I must agree...even though I have yet to run into one that isn't good. I'm just saying that telling everyone that he's played 70 of them and they all sounded like crap is a very juvenile thing to say. I haven't played 70 of them and I love them.

I've played a lot more import Jacksons that sounded good then LTDs. The KH-202 I had for a short time was good despite its god awful trem, and a shop here has Viper of some kind that is the cats ass in terms of looks and sound, but the neck was repaired and plays like a Squier

Indeed, and I wonder if the neck repair was due to damage or something that just happened (like neck twisting orr something..?) to the guitar. As for trems...you have to get good ones because once the knife edges get rounded then you may as well rip them off and throw them away...and who wants to deal with soft saddles etc? OFR or other high end trem only!!

That said, I think part of why alot of ESPs subjectively sound like crap is there use of woods; a lot of them use agahis (or however its spelled). That wood imo is one step above plywood and not by much.

I must say that I don't own any agathis body guitars but I do have 5 or 6 mahogany guitars and a bunch of alder plus a couple of ash ones. My buddy pulled out a lower series Ltd a while back and I played it and the neck felt nice and everything...so then he plugged it in and it ripped. He said it has an agathis body but he has nice amps and the pickups must be decent (though they are the stock ones) because this thing sounded great and felt great too. I just can't believe how good the quality is of inexpensive guitars now.

LTDs also tend to suffer from what Schecters do; they feel really "blah". Nothing special about them. they have no character. Not to say Jacksons aren't like that, there aren't many X series I've fallen in love with, but IMO Pro and MG series kick every comparable LTD, Schecter, and Ibanez that I've played ass in terms of character

Here is the true crux of the discussion...because I feel the exact opposite. I love the feel of the Ltd guitars that I have and I have in excess of 20 guitars of many top brands including USA Fender, USA Gibson, USA Jackson from the 80s, Kramer American Series from the 80s, USA G&L, and my import G&Ls, import Ltds, a couple of import Ibanez, an import 80s Kramer, a couple of import Charvel, etc.

So when the quality gets close...it is personal taste that sets things apart. Sometimes people let their preference get in the way of even quality (you must have heard people argue over Ford and Chev before) and choose 'their brand' over something that is technically better from a quality perspective. That's the mentality that will ONLY drink ONE kind of beer. It is brand loyalty and companies/corporations love to promote it because it will get people sticking to their products only.

Anyway...it's cool to discuss something like this in this manner. Somehow I feel like we left something out in that even though I called the other guy a 'tool' you and I didn't call each other 'douchebag' or 'moron'.

[Chromatic]

Spot the difference!

!!!!

[CharvelRocker]

Oh...I must agree...even though I have yet to run into one that isn't good. I'm just saying that telling everyone that he's played 70 of them and they all sounded like crap is a very juvenile thing to say. I haven't played 70 of them and I love them.

Oh yeah, I knew what you meant. I was just making a general statement.

Indeed, and I wonder if the neck repair was due to damage or something that just happened (like neck twisting orr something..?) to the guitar. As for trems...you have to get good ones because once the knife edges get rounded then you may as well rip them off and throw them away...and who wants to deal with soft saddles etc? OFR or other high end trem only!!

I think it took it fall or something, as it was running down from the headstock joint to the like 3rd fret or something. The problems with the trem I had was it wasn't returning to the position, the nut was kinda iffy, and the 6th string randomly blew out of the saddle. Probably just a crap shoot.

I must say that I don't own any agathis body guitars but I do have 5 or 6 mahogany guitars and a bunch of alder plus a couple of ash ones. My buddy pulled out a lower series Ltd a while back and I played it and the neck felt nice and everything...so then he plugged it in and it ripped. He said it has an agathis body but he has nice amps and the pickups must be decent (though they are the stock ones) because this thing sounded great and felt great too. I just can't believe how good the quality is of inexpensive guitars now.

I think for me, it becomes a matter of I don't like agathis and a lot of people don't so they sterotype them as toneless. I don't think its bad per se, but it lacks tone character. Not saying that the crap Jackson uses in the Js series is better though, that stuff is bad too. I think it does come down to the pickups though; pickups like EMGs that are less dependant on the wood in the guitar work great, while PAF style pickups are. And I think thats where the criticism of the wood comes from. I do think though there mahogany body guitars are pretty nice.

Here is the true crux of the discussion...because I feel the exact opposite. I love the feel of the Ltd guitars that I have and I have in excess of 20 guitars of many top brands including USA Fender, USA Gibson, USA Jackson from the 80s, Kramer American Series from the 80s, USA G&L, and my import G&Ls, import Ltds, a couple of import Ibanez, an import 80s Kramer, a couple of import Charvel, etc.

Indeed. I don't think there are too many guitars over $1,000 (or anymore, $600) that are truly bad instruments, and it comes down to taste. I prefer Jackson to Ibanez, ESP, Schecter and Kramer, though of the 3, I would probably own an LTD next, as I had a bad experince with Ibenhad and I dislike Schecter and Kramer. While that sounds like being a brand snob, it isn't. I just don't prefer an ESP/LTD to say, a Jackson, Aria Pro II or Washburn.

To me, its what gets you fired up. If you get fired up and inspired by your ESP ,go for it

[goodwood]

To me, its what gets you fired up. If you get fired up and inspired by your ESP ,go for it

That's it...right there!!

I can't speak to any of the new Kramers (I have read a lot of reviews but reviews don't mean anything until you put your hands on a few) because all of my Kramers are 80s models. Crazy colours (often) but great guitars. Man...my Jackson looks like it came from space...silver sparkle!!! It would fit right in if Ace Frehley played in in full regalia.

[Dan]

See Back in the late 80's early 90's I Catagorized Ibanez as "Shredder" guitars,Just about EVERY Thrash/Death Metal Band had a Jackson/Charvel ,so I NEVER thought Jackson as a "Hair Metal"guitar,That was B.C. Rich(I still think Tracii Guns is cool).Metallica were playing ESP's back in the "Justice" days(I remember that was the first time I seen those Guitars) I dont hate ESP's But I dont like the REALLY Cheap LTD's.Sure they may have more options,BUT When I picked up one,I wasnt too impressed. C.O.W. I think is cool,and I have liked Fear Factory for along time. I think Jackson Needs to get their head out their Rear ends,and start endorsing People Who are SUB 50.You know another Guitar that isnt bad is Yamaha,they make some great ,Quality Guitars for the money.I like Jackson/Charvels and ESP's headstocks and I Really dont think Jacksons are outdated 80's "Axes".Everything comes around full circle,Jackson will be on top again,they just need WAY better marketing. Heck Jim Root(Slipknot) went to Fender,he is playing a Tele!! I have seen the ESP Catalogs,and MAN they have alot of people that play them.Kids want what their Idols Have,and Unfortuneately they have ESP/LTD(Everytime I hear/see LTD,I keep thinking FORD LTD) I never liked Dean Guitars,Heck I think Sears was selling them back in the late 1980's.

[xbolt]

I love the feel of the Ltd guitars that I have and I have in excess of 20 guitars of many top brands including USA Fender, USA Gibson, USA Jackson from the 80s, Kramer American Series from the 80s, USA G&L, and my import G&Ls, import Ltds, a couple of import Ibanez, an import 80s Kramer, a couple of import Charvel, etc.

Ironic ... you state that the LTDs are the shit (No argument, they are a good bang for the buck)
...but you also mention in another post that the higher quality yet also ESP built Kramer Nightswan was " the poorest construction you ever experienced with a Kramer."
Not to mention that many of the late 80's US and import Kramers were also ESP built. ????