Why is ESP more popular than Jackson?

[chrisolson]

phil collins aren't the most popular guys out there ,

Yeah, Phil Collins is a drummer though, and he's in Genesis!! I haven't seen him with many Jacksons either...

Phil Collen...

[Rich#6]

Chris Beattie and phil collins aren't the most popular guys out there

hmm... Last summer def leppard was selling out dates at the outdoor theatres. In chicago I believe they sold about 27,000 tickets. I would like to be that unpopular

[fuel0707]

I can tell you part of it -- the last time I wen into GC and picked up a Jackson, the trem was a DISASTER (you couldn't tune it to save your life!!), and the rest have broken strings, missing parts, etc... They are basically unplayable. A little help from the stores would make a BIG difference in getting them off the racks and into somebody's hands...

That's more of a GC (and even Sam Ash) issue than a FMIC issue. I travel for work and I've seen a lot of GC's. By far, most of them feature beat-up guitars and I don't think a lot of the GC staff can change strings or polish a guitar, let alone do any rudimentary set up work.

Maybe FMIC should try to lean on GC to keep guitars in good playing condition. It couldn't hurt sales.

[S.O.A.F]

.....
Jackson needs to get some big guns under their belt... and Im talking NEW, FRESH people, not people that are 10 years past their peak.

I totally agree.
this's the best advice for Jackson

[joshulator]

I just want to second that kids aren't the only ones buying ESPs. I'm 32 and will probably be buying an M-II in the next 5 months.

Having owned an ESP previously, ESP is certainly capable of quality instruments.

Metallica, while certainly influential, can not be given sole credit for ESP's popularity. There were a significant number of guitar hero ESP endorsers in the 80s and 90s. Besides Metallica, you also had

Queensryche
George Lynch
Yngwie J Malmsteen (short period of time)
Vernon Reid
Jake E. Lee (I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain this was briefly the case)
Michael Romeo (don't know if he endorsed, but he certainly played)

In addition, while I have never played an Eclipse, my general impression is that ESP has taken the classic Les Paul shape and made it much more suitable to a metal player. My impression is that the upper fret access is superior, the guitar is lighter, and it comes standard with EMGs (I personally prefer Seymour Duncans, but that is an option on one model as well). Heck, the custom version is even neck through!!

I can't say for sure how ESP is doing as a company compared to Jackson, but they sure have the appearance of being more successful, and I think that they are just reaping the rewards of making some good decisions.

I agree that Jackson needs to get better penetration in some established artists. They had both Alexi and Rusty and lost them both. Jackson also needs to figure out how to sell their less expensive models without canibalizing their USA line.

[sonicsamurai]

In Ireland and England you can find good LTDs in shops all around the place, all I've seen for Jacksons are cheap JS series and other bottom of the line imports

not true..i rarely see esps or ltds, and see jacksons up to the high end of the impot series. i only know one shop in the midlands that sells anything more than the chepest LTDs

[CharvelRocker]

I hear a lot of people on the dean forum saying that Fender really did kill the jackson imports, but I couldn't see how. Isn't Jackson still run by the originals- but fender owns it?

Its a Dean forum. Some people will say the early Jackson Professionals were better made and had better hardware and had MOP. Personally though, I think the current Jackson imports are great guitars. And Fender didn't kill them. You could say Akai killed them, since the line was revamped around when Akai took over.

[Chromatic]

and who has the better custom shop?

[chrisolson]

I think the older Pros were a lot better... I owned alot of them. I've only owned a couple "recent" models (IMO from about 1999 - now), and it may be just me, but there's just no "mojo" to them the way there had been. Yeah, the new trems are a little better, and using "real" pickups helps too, but they just seem sterile by comparison the the good stuf from the late 80's - mid 90's, that had the Jackson/Charvel branded Schaller trems, and decent Jackson p'ups. I never *had* to change anything on them back then. Of course, I don't need to now either, but the guitars just don't reallt turn my crank. I blame part of that on the overall "dumbing down" of the brand. they don't get me excited when I'm in the stores any more.

[chrisolson]

and who has the better custom shop?

Depends on who you ask. It also depends on what you want -- try to get an Explorer out of the Jackson shop...

It also depends on whether or not QC is awake as guitars roll off the line as we have seen from FMIC/Jackson recently. They have kinda slipped a bit as of late. So has Gibson.

[Jeff Albertson]

Depends on who you ask. It also depends on what you want -- try to get an Explorer out of the Jackson shop...

It also depends on whether or not QC is awake as guitars roll off the line as we have seen from FMIC/Jackson recently. They have kinda slipped a bit as of late. So has Gibson.

Agreed.
Gibson has had blatant problems for a few years now, from USA thru to the Custom Shop. JCMI seems to have sprung quite a few leaks lately too, but not even close to Gibson's blundery. I wonder what the issues are? They're getting good money for this stuff. Too many marketing execs and not enough skilled builders. Smells plain old fashioned greed to me.

[jacksoncsplayer]

Sounds like there are strong points for each side, that being said I played an ESP eclipse for the first time the other evening and was quite suprised at the quality, sound and out of the box set up. It played great, sounded great and looked cool. I'm 43 and have owned more Jacksons and Charvels than I care to remember. However just about every great metal guitar player from the late 70s to now has had a Jackson or Charvel in their hands and most were endorsed by them, money seems to be the common factor here and if they want to play for the money they should have at it. Brand integrity and personal integrity should not be confused. Jackson had a couple hiccups in quality like everyone else has ie gibson, fender but I think they will pull out of this and still be the winner. Mustaine left for ESP and is now with Dean what the fuck does that tell you he'll be back with Jackson in the next year i'll bet on it. Lynch's guitars are built to the specs of his original San Dimas Bengal. It's not the guitars, it's the business of guitars.

MD

[Erez]

^moreover, I saw a DK1 Snakeskin in a dutch shop which was priced around (if not more than) 3500 USD.. last time I checked that was a lot

Same problem here in Israel.. Most stores got cheap ESPS and Jacksons, but the store that sells USA made Jacksons price them SO HIGH that they are simply not available, let alone not being worth this insane amount of money they ask for. For example I've seen a new dk1 with 2 humbuckers, I played it and it was ok, but my older jacksons that I got off ebay for 600 dollars apiece are alot better, and the dk1's price was 4,000 dollars!!! Who is going to buy that? jackson is simply not available for the public with those prices in that store and they are the only one that brings USA made models.

[Shibs]

I sell both ESP and Jackson, both the custom and imports (all ESP/LTD are imports) but they offer other things as well. I love Jackson, but I have to admitt I have played a few nice LTD's that aren't too expensive, they use the Earvana system on their mid-tier guitars and they have some of the latest bands playing them from Alexi Laiho, Michael Wilton, George Lynch, Kirk Hammett and Wayne Static just to name a few, they are on the Pulse of the teen scene.... I for one like the Lynch models, I own two made in the late 80's and early 90's! Try 'em... you may find them to be nice guitars, they will never replace my love for Charvels and Jacksons, but they are third in line!

[toejam]

Metallica, while certainly influential, can not be given sole credit for ESP's popularity. There were a significant number of guitar hero ESP endorsers in the 80s and 90s. Besides Metallica, you also had

Queensryche
George Lynch
Yngwie J Malmsteen (short period of time)
Vernon Reid
Jake E. Lee (I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain this was briefly the case)
Michael Romeo (don't know if he endorsed, but he certainly played)

Also:

Scott Ian (the original Eclipse Tele shape for the most part) and Frank Bello from Anthrax.

Dave Murray from Iron Maiden. Though, I'm not sure if he was actually endorsed.

Kerry King... before Bernie Rico, Sr. bought the B.C. Rich company back.

You're right about Jake E. Lee... he did have a H/S/S hardtail signature model with the slanted single coils, and the frets were jumbo on 1-12 and medium on 13-22.