Been Jonesing for a JEM....

[Rupe]

Ignorance is bliss.

Notice that not once did Newc or I say it sounded bad, just TYPICALLY not as good...there will be exceptions to just about everything when it comes the dynamics of musical instruments.

I have yet to see an intelligent rebuttal from all of you ebony fanboys. Back up your claims as to why it's a superior tonewood.

+1... The bits about the material of a guitar having little effect on high gain tones was particularly laughable. Much of the other stuff you guys said stinks so much of the asses from which it came, I can't bear to rehash it or comment.

Back it up, tough guy. The 3rd grade nature of your argument is the only thing laughable here. You feel the need to get insulting because you disagree with two people offering educated opinions while offering none of your own? Over the tonal qualities of a type of wood?

[nhspike]

I think that the harshness is outweighed by the slick feel/dense grain of ebony against my fingers... like black ice.

Probably a mental image that works for me more than a scientific thing.

In any event, Ebony is my favorite.

I especially dig the tones that talk to me from my Ibanez Proline guitars when played spanky clean with NO overdrive.

Adding overdrive etc. also works. hehe

I've more than likely adjusted for some tonal issues (which guitar doesn't have some issues?) with my choice of pickups, an my picking technique, or where I have the volume or tone knobs.

As a side benefit, with my eyeballs quickly heading into "reading-glasses required" land, I find it easier to spot the strings against a black background!!!

Just my 2 cents, etc.

[xbolt]

Ignorance is bliss.

Notice that not once did Newc or I say it sounded bad, just TYPICALLY not as good...there will be exceptions to just about everything when it comes the dynamics of musical instruments.

Wellll...errrr...ummmm.
This was in your first categoric statement/"opinion"

Ebony looks great but sounds pretty bad. There's a reason that elite builders like Anderson and Suhr won't use the stuff.

Not only did you state that it sounds bad but you expanded on the matter of fact that it sounds so bad that the elite won't even use it. Your statement regarding Suhr and Anderson not using ebony may be true, but the reason they don't offer it is likely not because of tone but due to manufacturability and economics, plain and simple.

As far as a rebuttal...that was never the intent...but I did mention why I prefer it. As far as being a "fanboy" I never mentioned not liking other woods...

I admit that the feel of ebony plays a large role for me but with mahogany it enhances the highs which in turn expands the overall dynamic range, while also improving the definition of the overall tone.

To each his own I believe...

[Soap]

Like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
So are all these comments about various fretboard woods, pickups, body wood, bridges and etc. Its all a preference that various from one to the next.
If you like and prefer Ebony...wonderful...if you don't... wonderful.
If you like a floyd over a kahler...wonderful...if you don't...wonderful.
If you like a JB or a custom 5...wonderful...if not...wonderful.
Its really such an insignificant trivial matter not imo worth debating or fussing over.

My concern is, can you play the thing.

[åron]

Back it up, tough guy. The 3rd grade nature of your argument is the only thing laughable here. You feel the need to get insulting because you disagree with two people offering educated opinions while offering none of your own? Over the tonal qualities of a type of wood?

If someone implies you are talking out of your ass, you find that insulting? You just implied that people who disagree with your assessment of ebony should check their ears. If you make thinly veiled insults, it's all in fun, but if it gets returned in kind, you get all bitchy. :ROTF:

You're taking the criticism of ebony too far. If it doesn't sound good to you in your applications, fine. I find it provides welcome texture in a few different configurations. To throw it out entirely as a tonewood seems pretty stupid to me.

[Rupe]

If someone implies you are talking out of your ass, you find that insulting? You just implied that people who disagree with your assessment of ebony should check their ears. If you make thinly veiled insults, it's all in fun, but if it gets returned in kind, you get all bitchy. :ROTF:

You're taking the criticism of ebony too far. If it doesn't sound good to you in your applications, fine. I find it provides welcome texture in a few different configurations. To throw it out entirely as a tonewood seems pretty stupid to me.

It's easy to claim that someone is talking out of their ass when you offer nothing to back up why you disagree. I can respect a difference of opinion (although there is alot of "fact" at work here), but I don't respect dumb-ass insults from someone who hasn't shown that they have a clue what they're talking about. I've done tests and comparisons in a controlled environment, have you? The harshness to the high end is a fact, not my opinion. That's not to say you can't make adjustments and dial in something that sounds good...I do it with my LP, RR, and Soloist. But the fact remains that those instruments, all else equal, have a certain harshness to the high end that must be accounted for vs maple and especially rosewood fretboard equipped guitars.

As for Anderson and Suhr, both have spoken about the wood as tonally inferior...it has nothing to do with "manufacturability (?) or economics". These guitars typically retail above the $4K mark, do you really think they are concerned with anything other than making the absolute best product that they can? If they thought ebony would add to the quality and tone of their work, you can bet that they would use it.

I'll agree wholeheartedly with those that mention liking the look and feel of ebony...it's great in those areas.

[åron]

I'll admit I started by picking apart what you guys were saying bit by bit, agreeing with some of it and disagreeing with other bits. Then it struck me that dismissing ebony as a tone wood on a Jackson forum smacked of trollery. The high gain comment feels the same. Is getting a good sound with nothing but a guitar plugged into an amp better than using eq, boosts, compressors and other fx on the front end? Sometimes I want harsh, sometimes I want warmth - a brighter component somewhere in my axe's tonal spectrum let's me be flexible and set up my signal flow accordingly.

Suhr makes bolt ons, so naturally ebony is excessive spank. (BTW I don't get buying $4k bolt-ons, so yeah... another topic.) Suhr has strong, well informed opinions and he is more than happy to share them, but he's really more of a purist, isn't he? Not all of us are trying to sound like x guitarist or x album.

[xbolt]

As for Anderson and Suhr, both have spoken about the wood as tonally inferior...it has nothing to do with "manufacturability (?) or economics". These guitars typically retail above the $4K mark, do you really think they are concerned with anything other than making the absolute best product that they can? If they thought ebony would add to the quality and tone of their work, you can bet that they would use it.

Anybody can speak about wood tonality to serve their purpose...
To that end, even PRS who did offer ebony have ceased to do so due to difficulties in integrating it in an automated manufacturing process. Certainly not because he suddenly discovered it's tonal inferiority.
A similar process many other high end guitar makers are now also using to increase production in order to make/sell more guitars...
No doubt of the product quality but like all guitar makers, it's a business.

So if you think about it, they do not offer ebony regardless of an obvious market for it...do they hate the sound so much that they don't permit a potential client to chose it regardless?
or
Do they hate building with ebony so much that they just pulled it off the option list...

It could also be that their personal taste is as they say but using a luthier's statements as proof positive that you are right...well that is only trumped by the next more expensive, tonally revered or celebrated luthier's opinion...
Take this guy as an extreme...http://www.gruhn.com/features/Excel/AR3919.html
or even Wayne Charvel, Larrivee...maybe even Stratavarius...were they just wrong?
If so, I'm gonna get on the horn right now and set them straight.

As for experimenting...I believe the majority of us are tone seekers and do our share of knob tweaking and gear testing...some also call it GAS...

In the end it is your ear but my eye...

[Jack The Riffer]

I think MOTO inlays give the best tone.

[Bengal65]

This was a story as told to me by my teacher in college. My teacher in college, Mike Christensen, Utah State University, author of many books to date, studied with Andre Segovia while in his early years prior to becoming a professor. He wanted to broaden his style which was mostly Jazz and Rock. He took lessons for awhile, then one day he brought in his electric. He showed the Master, his Jazz guitar, stating he brought it in to do some styles in a Classical-Jazz vein. The Master replied, "that's not a guitar!" Mike said, "excuse me?" The Master said a again, "that's not a guitar!" "A electric guitar is not a guitar". The Master held up his custom classical and said, "This is a guitar". This is a true story, and one of his other students, Christopher Parkening (sp?), ran up with a similar story.

So, the Master say's, if an electric is not a guitar it can have no tone, no matter what wood it's made of.

[Big Al]

I will go out on a limb and state that I like ebony (real ebony, not the stained rosewood stuff). I have a LP custom, fusion, nightswan and Jem VWH with ebony. For me, it is a perfect blend of maple and rosewood.
Then again you could probably compair the body wood, neck wood, frets, pick ups, stings, cable, amp, cabinet, pick, voltage, humidity, temperature, etc..changing the tone of a guitar.

[thetroy]

Antonio Stradivari used ebony. His instruments sound pretty OK.

[Big Al]

What fret board wood is used for high end classical guitars($5,000+)?

[Bengal65]

What fret board wood is used for high end classical guitars($5,000+)?

Almost all are Ebony. The Jose Ramirez Elite $20K (MAP) as an example, is Cameroon Ebony. The $12K (MAP) Ramirez 1A Standard model is Ebony.
Here's a link to a store:

http://www.dreamguitars.com/instock_ramirez.htm

[Big Al]

Almost all are Ebony. The Jose Ramirez Elite $20K (MAP) as an example, is Cameroon Ebony. The $12K (MAP) Ramirez 1A Standard model is Ebony.
Here's a link to a store:
http://www.dreamguitars.com/instock_ramirez.htm

Yep, ebony...but I guess it does not apply to electric guitars (according to some people). I guess more classical guitars should have maple fret boads.